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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
12-08-2008 04:20 PM  8 years agoPost 1
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Coopersburg, PA

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We are interested in designing our new BAT GASSER to accomodate
the Saito Gas engines. It's winter & limited flying at best. Looking at the numbers we would need 16 tooth for the 20CC & 18 tooth pinion USING OUR current 88 tooth main gears would give us max headspeed of 1800 RPM....

Now consider that we have 83 tooth main gears & 15 tooth pinion we can achieve the 1800RPM with much less stress on the motors than going to higher pinion gears.

The torque of these motors is very powerful so the power curve & 1800 RPM will make for a great flying heli.

What do you guys think.

Irwin

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12-08-2008 05:29 PM  8 years agoPost 2
smallplanes

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Irwin you have a PM with an order on the Octane Bat 26cc pro.

Let me know?

Thanks

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12-08-2008 05:58 PM  8 years agoPost 3
heli_headcase

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Hovering around Atlanta

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Fly it and Try it...

Unless there's going to be a big engineering change in the frame or engine mount design, why not allow some room to try a number of different ratios?

The lower (numerical) ratio of the 88 & 18 (4.89-1) will put less stress on the rotating parts of the engine but put higher demands on the cooling system. The reverse is true for the 83 & 15 (5.53-1) ratio but at 1800rpm you're spinning the engine at very close to 10Krpm.

The specs on Horizon's site don't state the exact peak torque or peak HP rpm, only the max rpm limit of useful power (10,000). That upper limit is okay for an occasional overspeed but I'd stay away and consider picking a running rpm of more like 9,000.

I know the gear center-to-center distance will vary considerably if wide ratio changes are picked but I'd allow for the 88T main and 16-18T clutch pinion to start. Blade length and max pitch will be the final determining factor and you may discover the 1800 head speed could be too high.

You're close, fly it and see what happens. Just don't over speed or over temp the engine before you're done.

Hope this helps...


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

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12-08-2008 11:36 PM  8 years agoPost 4
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TIME TOO BUILD & EXPERIMENT

Please correct me if I am wrong...I always belived the higher the pinion the harder the motor had to work to keep up with the bigger pinion like a 18 tooth...I like lower gearing...

I think the 83 tooth main gear & 15 tooth pinion would be my first choice. I would also run a 4/c tuned pipe....With the 15 t pinion you would have a stronger midrange with good transition to top end with pattern long pipe.

If there is some out there that would like to experiment I can help support any special parts requirements.

If interested please feel free to email me. It's winter..

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12-09-2008 10:10 PM  8 years agoPost 5
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WE WILL TEST ASAP.

I have every thing in house to install a Saito 20 GAS except the motor & motor mount. Can anyone tell me mounting dimensions for this motor? Any one use a tuned pipe in a planes with this motor.

We will use 83Tooth main & 15T pinion,
1800 headspeed at 90% @9000 motor RPMS. I will use a governor so not to push it over 90%.

Any one have a motor to lend? I need it two flights to get the numbers...

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12-09-2008 10:36 PM  8 years agoPost 6
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Now i like that, a company thats not scared to try ASAP. But want that be a headspeed of 1627 and a ratio of 5.533? Also i'm looking forward to my new kit.

Thanks Irwin

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12-10-2008 03:23 PM  8 years agoPost 7
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WE NEED A 16 TOOTH PINION

YOUR NUMBERS ARE CORRECT. We will need a 16 tooth pinion to use with 83 tooth main gears to achieve 1800 head speed.
The max RPM on the Saito 20 is 10,000 however we can run at 9000 max or the motor will not last very long.

Too make a 16 tooth pinion & motor mount will be the first tasks.
If there are any one that can make a pinion gear I can send you the drawing. Please let me know...

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12-10-2008 05:15 PM  8 years agoPost 8
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I would make it for you but we don't cut teeth. We make blanks and send it to a company and they cut the teeth for use. Some times that can get preaty pricy.

Thanks

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02-11-2009 12:33 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Is this being dropped? I was following this as I have not been a big fan of the big block zenoah engines. I have been wanting a gasser, but still feel gassers have a ways to go and this was looking promising.

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02-11-2009 01:57 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Rbush

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here

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..

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02-11-2009 03:10 PM  8 years agoPost 11
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BIG BLOCK 4/C IN the WORKS

We have several NEW pinion sizes in prototype now. I am sorry we have several other projects also under way now with only 24 hours in a day.

For your information Mr. Bush production & prototype test samples are two totally different requirements as you well know. If we can save the money why not ask for help. I am not too proud to ask...

In the US a sample like this is 500-1000.00 USD...Not cheap....

We are making 16-17-18 tooth pinion...WE will have 1800 RPM head speed...With the torque of the 4/c this machine should be a beast...

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03-27-2009 05:56 PM  8 years agoPost 12
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THIS WILL HAPPEN

We have moved this up to the front burner....this will take several weeks to get the pinion gear samples & frames in hand to build the prototype.
I will order the motor as well so we can see the motor mount requirements.

We could lose a pound or more & increase torque like EP power...QWW

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05-18-2009 10:06 PM  8 years agoPost 13
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JUST TO UPDATE THOSE INTERESTED

We received today our 3 prototype pinion gears for the various gear ratios testing. we have 16-17-18 tooth. The Saito FG-20 will be installed in a 3.0MM carbon frame with tuned pipe for maximum performance. The type & length of the pipe will depend on which gear ratio we settle with. WE will test for RMP's & HEAT.

[img] /helicopter/gallery/9577/File0284.jpg [desc]

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05-18-2009 10:17 PM  8 years agoPost 14
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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Wonderful! I am watching intently. I have been contemplating a gasser conversion with the FG 20 or the FG 36. Buying a kit would be so much easier!

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05-18-2009 10:59 PM  8 years agoPost 15
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ONE AT A TIME

Tommorrow I will begin building the frame not from a gasser but from our BAT 90 FRAME modified for the FG-20. I have some machining to do first so the drive system will work.
BTW the FG-36 is like using a G38 ON STERIODS...ONE AT A TIME...

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05-19-2009 02:29 AM  8 years agoPost 16
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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So you are considering the FG 36? Put me down for one!

I would think that you could run the FG 36 at 5,000 to 6,000 RPM and spin 710's

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05-19-2009 03:10 PM  8 years agoPost 17
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FG-20 HAS ENOUGH POWER

The FG-20 turns the same props as the Zenoah 26CC so I will consider this for 680-710MM blades... More of a 90 class with big torque. Again the operating heat range here is the critical factor on how fast we can turn the head.

The FG 36 could easily handle 800MM blades. For now the the FG-20 will be more than enough power. One Project at a time. QWW

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05-19-2009 04:11 PM  8 years agoPost 18
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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This sounds like a good cantidate for a build thread. If you have any pics to share during the build please post 'em!

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05-19-2009 04:51 PM  8 years agoPost 19
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Coopersburg, PA

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NEW FRAMES FOR GS 20 ONLY

There are several ways to install the motor. This will not be a DIY
build simply because gearing is critical from any other90 machine or gasser in the market. We are working on a new frame design now as this frames drive system can not be a conversaion nor the motor installed into other helicopters..

The machine will be converible into any BAT design with a new frame for gasser, nitro or EP...QWW

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05-21-2009 05:44 PM  8 years agoPost 20
smallplanes

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Irwin hows the helis coming along?


Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br

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