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HelicopterMain Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
03-19-2009 07:33 PM  8 years agoPost 101
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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There is a point on any aerodynamic entity,
where you go too far when adding surface area for lift,
there is also a point when there is not enough.

Helicopters have little to no such surfaces.

Thats like saying it would be dumb to add wings to a plane that has a power plant strong enough to lift off without them.

Just like me saying "I think they work" is not proof.

Saying "They can't possibly help" is just as useless.

Time will tell.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-19-2009 09:07 PM  8 years agoPost 102
steve69

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Berkshire, UK.

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Thats like saying it would be dumb to add wings to a plane that has a power plant strong enough to lift off without them.
That would be a rocket then?

Please dont take this as an attack, it is imposible to convey intonation and inflection in a text based message thus this may seem like I am having a go at you which is not my intent.

Surely lift generated by rear weighted free rotating winglets would only produce, at best, lift enough to cancel out their own weight, anything else is just drag. Why do planes not have their wings flapping about in the breeze?
Without a fixed axis in order to achieve an angle of attack relative to thrust line with a symetrical airfoil I cannot see how any usable lift is transfered to the aircraft.
By your example lets turn it backwards, have a forward weighted winglet on a F1 car that can freely rotate........ I have yet to see any F1 team implement such a device, surely the faster you go the more 'negative lift' you would produce?

Like yourself I freely admit that I am in no way any kind of expert on the subject however I have studied some of the fixed wing principals of flight for my PPL.

I watch with interest in seeing real data from an aerodynamic point of veiw rather than "you have to try it to believe it".

Keep up the good work and even when this turns out not the way you hope it to be, dont let that stop you trying to make the world a better place, remember from failure comes experience! (I should know!)

Take care when you are out experimenting, when you are flying an experimental aircraft you cannot predict what "might" happen, ie a winglet failing and going through your blades causing your heli to go out of control, you really dont want that happening around your child, even 450 sized can cause huge distress if it were to hit your kid.

I wish you the best in your endevour.

Steve

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03-19-2009 11:16 PM  8 years agoPost 103
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Funny you should bring up the F1 scenario,
I was thinking about that today.

I don't think they (current incarnation) would be appropriate there,
because downforce is mostly needed to stick corners and brake,
so a free moving dynamic stabilizer wouldn't help.

But one that was controlled in tandem with the cars computer stability system would be useful.

It could be set up to provide less downforce while accelerating,
and go more negative for braking and turning.

That little daydream aside.

I think I have the best way to prove lift.

What happens with your heli when:

Bring it in to a stable hover,

without touching the throttle,

lean into forward flight.

You will start to move forward,
while at the same time losing altitude,

right?

Not with the dynamic stabilizer,

the same amount of throttle/blade pitch required to hover @ 5 ft can be used for FF.

As soon as I can get a camera I will film this.

I fully understand your frustration with text,
and I did not see it as an attack,
only a reasonable query/scenario.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-19-2009 11:30 PM  8 years agoPost 104
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Dave Herbert (NightFlyer)

Has begun a review of my design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBeb-BPo_is

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-20-2009 12:23 AM  8 years agoPost 105
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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in to a stable hover, without touching the throttle, lean into forward flight.

You will start to move forward, while at the same time losing altitude, right?
Nope.

With forward motion from a stable hover translational lift immediately begins, increasing with forward speed, allowing both RC and fullsized helis to begin gently climbing with no addition of collective pitch nor throttle.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-20-2009 01:37 AM  8 years agoPost 106
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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That is something for me to consider,
the topic of transitional lift has been brought up before,
and I thought I understood it.

Apparently not.

Thanks

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-20-2009 01:44 AM  8 years agoPost 107
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Thanks
You're welcome. Still wishing you the best with your endeavor.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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03-20-2009 05:24 AM  8 years agoPost 108
ruddernate

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sulphur,Ok.

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The Dave Herbert vid is cool. I'm one of his loyal you tube subscribers. Never thought i'd see him review one of my buddy's ideas. It seems like every review he does is in some serious wind, but that one was crazy windy. especially for that heli. keep it up hr. looking forward to your progress. at least your getting some recognition and getting some discussion flowing on new ideas. congrats.

fly it like you stole it

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03-22-2009 08:00 PM  8 years agoPost 109
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbt9L4BkiwQ

Watch at YouTube

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-23-2009 01:07 AM  8 years agoPost 110
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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nightflyyer vids=70's porn music.

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03-23-2009 02:18 AM  8 years agoPost 111
jgunpilot

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Pollock, LA

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So the wings swivel freely and align themselves with the relative wind - and this makes the aircraft fly faster? I really see no benefit from them.To my thinking, they merely add weight.

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03-23-2009 06:35 AM  8 years agoPost 112
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Thinking isn't everything,
I think of lots of things,
and sometimes I build them and they work.

But now,
there is someone with much more experience saying they work.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-23-2009 09:26 AM  8 years agoPost 113
Bad Karma

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UK

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This all seems like someone "inventing" something just so they can stand up and say to everyone "hey, I invented something" TBH.

This is dubious at best, and definately not anything I would call an invention, its a pair of weather vanes stuck to the side of a model heli.

Congrats.

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03-23-2009 10:10 AM  8 years agoPost 114
cameraman

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Yorkshire, England

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely, can we stop this nonsense now, please.

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03-23-2009 10:39 AM  8 years agoPost 115
PietervA

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New Zealand

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"And plenty of intelligent people think that a plane on a treadmill can not take off."

That would include people like me

In my mind, the only proof of this working would be a windtunnel test under very controlled conditions (or computer modelling) and an explanation that doesn't go against the basics of physics. Subjective impressions are just that, subjective. Coffee tastes better some mornings than it does on others.

The Wright brothers were very successful printers, publishers, businessmen & engineers, and based their first airplane on more than a decade's endeavour observing birds, building kites, and working out how airfoil & angle of attack influenced lift & control. They had the maths & the formulae to help them, and the windtunnel to further confirm their findings. Hanging from kite wings to glide down slopes was already well established, and practised by them hundreds of times. They knew a thing or two about engines.

These were two very intelligent men, who didn't simply wake up, have a cup of coffee, and say "let's go fly"! Their story may be in support of your efforts........nah, not really.

But have fun, that's what the hobby's about.

Are you sure this passes the "so what" test?

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03-23-2009 02:19 PM  8 years agoPost 116
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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But now,
there is someone with much more experience saying they work.
I'm neutral on this issue but if you're referring to the videos, I see nothing in those videos that would lead anyone to conclude that your winglets do anything aerodynamically.....

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03-23-2009 02:29 PM  8 years agoPost 117
ruddernate

rrKey Veteran

sulphur,Ok.

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the only thing i see in the vid is a man with decades of experience flying helicopters saying they work with nothing to gain. it's a good idea and can probably be useful to some (not all) pilots. i don't understand why all the negativity. the man is playing around with new ideas.

fly it like you stole it

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03-23-2009 03:19 PM  8 years agoPost 118
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Playing around with a new idea is fine and even commendable.

But . . . . giving it beneficial attributes without any proof is not.

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03-23-2009 04:03 PM  8 years agoPost 119
heliraptor10

rrKey Veteran

kokomo, in-US

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the only thing i see in the vid is a man with decades of experience flying helicopters saying they work with nothing to gain
Exactly.

Call me stupid all you want, but Dave has over 30 years of experience,
flying, designing, consulting on model aircraft.

He's worked for the government on UAVs (still does),
he's worked for Kyosho.

I am not pretending that his stamp of approval is proof,
but I thought it would be enough to get this negativity to stop.

I do not have the funds required to do any fancy tests,
(I keep trying to think of a proof, but haven't)
so the only way I can show that they work is by having someone try them.

It is nothing short of a miracle that Dave has had time to do so,
and I guess I am not too worried to still see naysayers on here,
because there are plenty of people who do believe in this man.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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03-23-2009 04:29 PM  8 years agoPost 120
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles,​Missouri

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I say keep it up. Test, test and test some more! Atleast he didn't dump some turd on the market for US to test for him.

If it keeps America thinking then so be it.

We all could learn something here....some just won't be able to "see" it.

Constructive critisism is good for all sides, let's just keep in constructive!

I haven't a clue to whether it's a legit product or not but I like that someone is thinking and inventing. If this doesn't work out it may lead to something else....who knows.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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HelicopterMain Discussion › The Dynamic Stabilizer : Now an abandoned patent
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