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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Electric Conversions
› E Raptor 90
03-23-2009 02:30 AM  8 years agoPost 101
tvnerd

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Henderson, NV

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Yep, they are out of round. If you were to make a main gear, what would you make it from?

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03-23-2009 04:10 PM  8 years agoPost 102
QueeQueg

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West Texas

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I don't know of any material that is significantly stronger than the plastic TT uses. The problem goes back to how much tooth contact do you have. With an electric motor you have all this instant torque available and without adequate contact you have problems.

Plastic main / metal pinion is really the only light weight option. Belts will work but they can be stripped as well. I wouldn't mind seeing a 10 to 1 lubed planetary gear box but think what it would cost to replace in a crash

2 stage transmissions are the other option but you have more parts more weight. I had a Joker 1 that had an a 12S Actro 32-3 on it and it's tranny held up no problem. But the primary pinion was 20T and the secondary pinion 16T so there was lots of contact on both plastic main gears which had small face widths (approx 7mm). About 2/3s of what the average 90's main is (about 10mm)

The Synergy N9 uses a 125T main gear but it is so wide that the canopy has to have 2 bulges to fit over the frame.

The only real world solution is to use a motor that will turn less than 20,000, and a pinion of at least 10T. And I know the difference between the 4035-500 and 560. I have one of each and prefer the power of the 560 but get tired of replacing gears so I use to 500 and get over it. Like yours after about 10 flights with the 560 there is visible gouging of the main's teeth and lots of dust all over the inside of the canopy and mechanics. The 500 doesn't do this and I've tried using a 10T with a 560 and all that I get with this setup is 1 minute less flight time and little if any extra power.

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03-23-2009 04:19 PM  8 years agoPost 103
NEM3

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New Lenox, Il

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Great post QueeQueg, thanks for your insight into the problems facing us e-converts.

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03-23-2009 09:55 PM  8 years agoPost 104
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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I've used the 9T pinion with the 95T main with 32-3 with no problems. Which is what I will be going back to, probably with a 4035-500 or any thoughts on the Xera?

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-24-2009 12:11 AM  8 years agoPost 105
QueeQueg

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West Texas

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The 9t is THE smallest you can get away with but when you least expect it and really honk on the collective or cyclic it's auto time.

The 8t is likey to strip it on the first flight.

When I was still running a 9t I would check the gear mesh after every flight and almost always it had loosened up by wearing the main and would tighten it every flight. With a 10T it takes a good day of several flights to do the same.

My next motor will be an Xera for sure. I've heard nothing but good and they sure look nice too. Their 4035 series is also a little heavier than the Scorpion 4035 or the 32-3 which are about the same. If the extra weight is from wire and magnets it should have more torque.

Probably enough to peel my main again

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03-24-2009 12:45 AM  8 years agoPost 106
NEM3

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New Lenox, Il

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Odd question then, is running 10S just not enough power?

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03-24-2009 12:56 AM  8 years agoPost 107
QueeQueg

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West Texas

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is running 10S just not enough power?
Sure it is with the newer high C LiPos. You'd need to make sure you had enough ESC to handle the higher amps. A Scorpion 560 would be an excellent choice for 10S. You also would be better off with higher capacity batteries since you'll be pulling more current from them.

The higher voltage setups are preferable because it's easier on all the hardware. But certainly not necessary.

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03-24-2009 01:58 AM  8 years agoPost 108
NEM3

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New Lenox, Il

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Makes sense, the same applies with ducted fans. Just was curious as to why most go with a 12S setup. I do remember a R50 E conversion I did was powered by a 10S Thunder power. And that thing made good power with a C50 something.

I don't have a problem going with a higher voltage setup. I also have thought about a dual stage setup. Like the Robbe Futura used. I think this would eliminate a lot of problems. The problem is fitting it all in. Who knows, we shall see.

Just throwing around ideas right now. I really like the reliability of my current R90. And I don't want to have maintenance issues every flight.

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03-24-2009 03:12 AM  8 years agoPost 109
QueeQueg

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West Texas

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It all boils down to Ohms Law. No matter how you get your watts you still got the same power. The high voltage started back when LiPos were like 7 to 10C so to get good power without trashing your batteries it was best to go higher voltage to keep the current draw down.

It's still better IMO to keep the voltage as high as practicable to keep the heat down as well a resistance and make things easier on all you power system hardware. But a 10S setup that pulls 100A and makes 3500W or a 12S system that pulls 85A and makes 3500W is still making 4.6HP and that's enough to make any OS or YS 90 blush

The lower gearing is also a factor in that it gives you a higher mechanical advantage but you must weigh this against overall weight and cost / complexity. So far the single stage spur gears are the winner.

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03-24-2009 05:40 AM  8 years agoPost 110
NEM3

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New Lenox, Il

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That and I think it really comes down to finding the right combination for a given airframe. With the helicopters its a bit easier since you can move the gear ratio around. The downside is that changing out for a faster motor and higher ratio is pointless due to a lower Kt (torque).

Lets say you gear the two scorpions so they attain the exact same head speed at 100% throttle under load.

The 500 specs out at 500KV, 1.9A Io, and 0.020ohm resulting Kt - 2.704 InOz/Amp
2000rpm Head speed @ 100% throttle under load on 12S requires a 9.925:1 ratio
Motor draws ~92.126A - 3578 Watts Out - 93.5% Eff

The 560 specs out at 560KV, 1.74A Io, and 0.012ohm resulting Kt - 2.414 InOz/Amp
2000rpm Head speed @ 100% throttle under load on 12S requires a 11.35:1 ratio
Motor draws ~90.062A - 3577 Watts Out - 95.5% Eff

So the 500 makes 4.79HP or 2472.4 InOz torque
And the 560 makes 4.79HP or 2467.6 InOz torque

For reference:
The A50-14L E-Turbine makes 4.80HP or 2447.8 InOz torque - 10.59 gear ratio.
The Xera 4035/2.5Y makes 4.80HP or 2448.4 InOz torque - 9.54 gear ratio.

Everything above is hypothetical numbers. Not to be meant as a true measure of a motors power.

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03-28-2009 08:43 AM  8 years agoPost 111
skytrooper

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South-Africa

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Good day

I am busy assembling the gearboxes for a new Raptor 90 3d and would like to know this.

The grub screw and pins, how tight do i need to turn in the grub screw, does it needs
to just connect with the pin or do you need to apply a little force?

I'm planning on using green loctite on both parts and not going to do any grinding.

Throttling up for the first time, i can't wait....

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03-28-2009 09:02 AM  8 years agoPost 112
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Grind or file a flat where the setscrew sits against the pin. The pins are harder than the setscrew and will work themselves out. The flat will stop this. Don't cut corners it'll cost you $$!

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-28-2009 11:39 AM  8 years agoPost 113
skytrooper

rrNovice

South-Africa

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aaah you really make it hard for me, all with good intend i know, i know... o.k. i will superglue the pins inside the gears and then threadlock it also, i mean if the threadlock dries on the pin and the gub is hsould be good, hope that would get cerification from you, i don't wanne grind them micro pins, i don't have tools for it

Throttling up for the first time, i can't wait....

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03-28-2009 04:41 PM  8 years agoPost 114
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Sorry dude, just trying to save you some $$ and downtime.

If you skip me I can't play!

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03-29-2009 11:38 AM  8 years agoPost 115
skytrooper

rrNovice

South-Africa

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I superglued the pins on the edges and used loctite on the tip of the grubscrew to get a nice metal to metal bond, i did not grind anything, It really looks very secure, should it loosen up and my heli explode well then, i won't get another Raptor, i'll convert a T-rex 700 then. Hope to not go there of course in the first place.

Throttling up for the first time, i can't wait....

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05-12-2009 01:49 AM  8 years agoPost 116
T-heli

rrApprentice

South-Africa

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Hi

I have bought a new set of lower carbon frames for the Raptor 90 3d,
What i found is that the carbon frames comes with shorter bolts
ie. 10mm bolts instead of the 12mm that was suppled with the kit.

Which should i use, the 12mm or 10mm bolts on lower amd upper frames?

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05-12-2009 03:08 PM  8 years agoPost 117
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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I'd use the 12mm less chance of stripping out the aluminum frame standoffs.

If you skip me I can't play!

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05-15-2009 05:09 AM  8 years agoPost 118
T-heli

rrApprentice

South-Africa

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Thanks PJ!

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05-15-2009 01:03 PM  8 years agoPost 119
"Cam"

rrKey Veteran

UK

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I'm going to the Scorpion 4035-400 with 10 or even 11T. 90% throttle looks to be about 1850 on the head. Also having a long shaft made so I can use a support bearing. It's going to be good!

DSX9
EMax V2
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/37491/

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05-15-2009 04:11 PM  8 years agoPost 120
HeliCSR

rrApprentice

Hesperia, Ca, US

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Here is my test data:

9 tooth pinion 95 tooth main gear, 8S 8000ma battery Actro 24/3 motor
740Kv.

This is the hover current with this set up. 850 watt hover 14 min flight time at this power level.

I fly and then I fly some more.
If it don't glitch then I won't crash.

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