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Other › My L500 just thermalled w/ Jazz 80..
07-12-2008 10:34 PM  9 years agoPost 1
saitoflyer

rrVeteran

L.A. CA

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Here is my set up

L500 3d
Hacker A40 10L
20th .5 mod pinion
futaba 9252
TPX 6S 5000mah
401/combo..

flew for about 4 min w/o canapy and it thermalled. Esc was hot but I dont see it why? I was just hovering too..

any ideas?

is that a new heli? Oh no honey, its the same one w/different stickers.....

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07-12-2008 10:42 PM  9 years agoPost 2
HeliCSR

rrApprentice

Hesperia, Ca, US

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ESC

What is the current rating of the ESC?

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07-12-2008 10:43 PM  9 years agoPost 3
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver,​Colorado

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Its a Jazz 80, so 80 amp with a 100 amps burst.

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07-12-2008 10:54 PM  9 years agoPost 4
HeliCSR

rrApprentice

Hesperia, Ca, US

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Motor

Can't put more than 45 amps into that motor. When they say 55 amps for 10-15 seconds thats pushing it.

What about the motor was that hot? Or did the motor smoke?

I derate my electronics, if a motor say 45 constant I dont put more that 30 amp to it, if that aint enough to fly how I want to fly,
then I get a bigger motor.

My ESC is about 110 degrees after flying 25 mins, the motor
is 145 degrees.

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07-12-2008 11:53 PM  9 years agoPost 5
clayboy

rrApprentice

phuket thailand

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the jazz 80 needs a lot of cooling,runs pretty hot,use more then 80% throttle curve check so you not having any servo problem if you are using the inbuilt bec or use a external bec. i had to put the esc on the side of my hurricane with a z30 motor.if it still doesent work put a heat sink on it

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07-13-2008 12:46 AM  9 years agoPost 6
saitoflyer

rrVeteran

L.A. CA

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the motor was hot too. almost same as the ESC. I just cant see how the ESC would get soo hot? It was flying w/o canapy and was just hovering. Hmmm. I did fly it in direct sunlight and my area is about 90degrees. How do I put a heat sink on it?

is that a new heli? Oh no honey, its the same one w/different stickers.....

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07-13-2008 01:08 AM  9 years agoPost 7
HeliCSR

rrApprentice

Hesperia, Ca, US

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Motor

Those motors cannot run over 180 degrees F.
If you do the motor can burn and short out making the ESC hot.

You may have too much rotor speed, which will make the motor hotter,
best to check the rpm of the rotor with a tach from the hobby store.

The motor will be hotter if you just hover, because there is no air
getting into the frame to cool it, when you fly around air will cool
it.

Try slowing down the motor and put more pitch, But what I would do, is put a current clamp meter on the battery pack lead and measure the current, 45 amps constant the motor should handle but if it more than that at hover its going to burn.

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07-13-2008 02:04 AM  9 years agoPost 8
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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What percentage are you running from the TX?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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07-13-2008 02:12 AM  9 years agoPost 9
Harts

rrApprentice

Victoria, Australia

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I have a Hacker A40-8L and when I had the wrong gear ratio I could thermal anything in under 60 seconds. You need to get the throttle % up over 80% and you should be ok. I run the Scorpion 120 amp speedy now and even with it set at 90% Gov mode I can thermal the speedy if im brutal on the sticks and have the canopy on but with it off I cant do it. I think the Hacker motors pull heaps of current but they go well, im waiting on Scorpion the bring out something for the 500 and I will give that a go.

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07-13-2008 02:55 PM  9 years agoPost 10
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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Try going down to a 19 tooth pinion

RREmodels

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07-13-2008 05:36 PM  9 years agoPost 11
TOSH

rrElite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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Also try a heatsink on the jazz.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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07-13-2008 11:12 PM  9 years agoPost 12
nicco

rrVeteran

Sweden

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Hackers A serie motors and Kontronik Jazz are not a good combintion. The Hacker motors get most of the time hot, but the Jazz never go hot, unless you run the Jazz with a Hacker A.

Best thing to do here is to change the motor to something else.

Jazz is a REALLY good ECS (I would say best on the market) but there is better option than Hacker motors.

/N

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07-14-2008 01:00 AM  9 years agoPost 13
brucewsb

rrNovice

Santa Barbara, CA

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The Hacker A40-10L and 8L run great with the Jazz 80 - there is no problem with that combination. It has been proven by many Logo owners to be close to perfection.

Saitoflyer, I assume you have programmed your Jazz 80 for mode 4 (governor mode) and had calibrated the ESC with a linear throttle curve by going to mode 1 first then mode 4. If you attempt to run in non-governor mode, the motor and ESC can run hot. You also need to run a flat TC so that the governor will stay locked in. If you use a V curve, the governor will not stay engaged even if you have the ESC programmed for it.

The gear ratio you are running (10.6) is very similar (and probably more efficient) than my mod 0.7 with a 15T (10.2 ratio) so you are in the right gear range. You should have a flat 80->85% with that pinion to give you around 2200 HS. Optimal head speed with 550mm blades should be between 2000->2300 depending on what type of flying you do. I run my TC at 86% and get about 2330 HS. My temperatures are ~122F on the Jazz 80(with heat sink), 120F on the motor and about 115F on the EVOlite 6S 5350 when running in ambient 75-85F.

As mentioned, you may want to either add a heat sink to the ESC (attached with ArticSilver thermal epoxy) or make sure you have the label side down so the heat plate is up. Others have reported overheating due to having the label up and not allowing the heat plate to get proper ventilation.

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07-14-2008 01:18 AM  9 years agoPost 14
saitoflyer

rrVeteran

L.A. CA

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so label side is at the bottom and the heat sink should be on top? I think I have to mess w/ my settings and attach a heat sink. So, there isnt any prob. mechanically right? my gear is right i think..

is that a new heli? Oh no honey, its the same one w/different stickers.....

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07-14-2008 01:32 AM  9 years agoPost 15
brucewsb

rrNovice

Santa Barbara, CA

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I think a 20T mod 0.5 pinion should be very efficient with the Hacker A40-10L. Did you program the ESC to mode 4 (governor mode) and use a flat TC?

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07-14-2008 01:40 AM  9 years agoPost 16
Tday

rrKey Veteran

Needham, MA

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I found the Hacker 40 8-L also runs hot (13t mod7 pinion, 6s). I also use it with a Jazz 80 run in mode 4 with a flat throttle curve---80%. I only ran it about 10-15 flights in the cool spring up here and with the batteries approaching 140 and the motor hot as well---I went whole hog and put in a plettenberg.

So that's to second the notion that there are better options than the Hacker...and the Jazz with heat sink is great. Tom

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07-14-2008 01:57 AM  9 years agoPost 17
brucewsb

rrNovice

Santa Barbara, CA

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I agree that there are a few combos that will work well and I have heard the A40-8L runs hotter than the A40-10L. Sometimes its a matter of getting the motor with the right KV and pinion combo as well as one that has a timing that is friendly with the Jazz.

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07-14-2008 04:30 AM  9 years agoPost 18
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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I would give the 19 tooth a go you would be amazed how one tooth can make a 20 to 30 degrees differance

I runn all CC125 controllers on 6s while iam testing motors when i drop a Jazz 80 in i have to drop 1 tooth on the pinion almost every time so i dont thermal the Jazz

RREmodels

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07-14-2008 11:49 PM  9 years agoPost 19
nicco

rrVeteran

Sweden

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brucewsb

I don't want to be rude, but just by mention that there is a need for a heat sink shows that there is a problem. I have been pulling 140A true a 55-10-32 without a heat sink, and it was not hot...

I have never, ever needed a heat sink on a Jazz, if it has been used withing the specs.

The Jazz is much better withing 75-80 on the gove. Try to add a tooth on the pinion and lover the gov. I noticed a huge difference when I lowered it below 80.

I have been using a lot of different motors on the Jazz (Hackers, Actro, Neu, Z-power and Plettenberg and the Hackers is running hotter in combination with the Jazz.

/N

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