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HelicopterOff Topics › The Air Car bye bye OPEC
07-11-2008 05:46 PM  9 years agoPost 21
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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Especially in environments where conditions vary by a lot.
Imagine compressing your air car with air in a nice warm garage and then driving outside in freezing temperatures? You wouldn't make it very far.

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07-11-2008 06:01 PM  9 years agoPost 22
daijoubu

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Burnaby, BC - Canada

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How would these handle an accident? What happens if I T-bone one with my 3000lb SUV at 50km/h?

I believe the ZENN is now certified for use in Quebec provided:
Drive with hazard lights on.
Remain in right lane.
Display orange hazard triangle on rear.

The ZENN was designed for use in small private communities where IC cars were required to park at the gate. They have limited top speeds around 40km/h which makes them impractical except as commuter cars. And really, 4 hours to refill the gas tank is not fast by any means. 15 minutes takes too long. Providing outlets at every parking spot becomes a necessity. Now how do you meter the costs if everybody plugs in every time they park?

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07-11-2008 08:02 PM  9 years agoPost 23
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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What happens if I T-bone one with my 3000lb SUV at 50km/h?
You have a 3000 Lb. SUV? My wifes compact Mercedes weighs 3250 Lbs. What happens when an 8600 Lb. Hummer H2, or a 9200 Lb. Ford Excursion hits one?

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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07-11-2008 08:09 PM  9 years agoPost 24
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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You guys know gasoline is flammable right?

will wash your heli for a quarter

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07-12-2008 02:54 PM  9 years agoPost 25
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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You guys have a lot of good points but some are not valid

If the carbon fiber coated tanks rupture it will only split open releasing AIR not fuel or shrapnel .

For controlling condensation alcohol could be used.

Maintaining a high pressure system could be a problem where rust is concerned as all cars rust at some point especially here in Ontario where we put salt on the roads in winter.

If you look at the second engine in the video it is a better technology.

They can make an on-board mechanical air compressor that could be tied into the drive line and use the inertia to help power it when stopping or going down hill.
You can even use a solar panel to power up a compressor

.

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07-13-2008 07:54 AM  9 years agoPost 26
P RNDL

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USA

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So design the system that you are so sure of with your technological wisdoms that everyone hears on TV.

YOU know so much, YOU design it, otherwise quit whining and STFU

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07-13-2008 01:12 PM  9 years agoPost 27
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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Gees what some people will go through just to make a stupid comment
like creating a new account on RR....

.

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07-14-2008 01:17 PM  9 years agoPost 28
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Playing devils advocate here...

Maintaining a high pressure system could be a problem where rust is concerned as all cars rust at some point especially here in Ontario where we put salt on the roads in winter.
Many large trucks use "high" pressure air systems. High is relative here as they are running at a few hundred pounds not a few thousand. But, the problems of corrosion causing leakage are still the same and they have been surmounted by and large.

Carry on.

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07-14-2008 01:43 PM  9 years agoPost 29
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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The air brakes on trucks are 100-125psi. Also, they have a compressor running whenever the trucks engine is running. Leaks are entirely too common. The leaks are common, because of the vibration and shocks endured by a vehicle bouncing down the road. Condensation can cause ice to build up and cause brake failures. Corrosion doesn't usually cause leaks. It usually causes valves to stick or to not seat properly, resulting in system failures.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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07-14-2008 01:52 PM  9 years agoPost 30
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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The leaks are common, because of the vibration and shocks endured by a vehicle bouncing down the road.
due to inneficient hook ups design

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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07-14-2008 01:56 PM  9 years agoPost 31
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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my point was that they have a knowledgebase already for help.

done playing advocate now.

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07-14-2008 04:45 PM  9 years agoPost 32
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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It definitely doesn't take much R+D to design one of these by today's standards. It doesn't mean that we should starting driving them though. It would probably be more efficient to store air as a reversible reaction that produces oxygen or nitrogen.

will wash your heli for a quarter

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07-14-2008 05:23 PM  9 years agoPost 33
Inspector Fuzz

rrKey Veteran

NLA

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Compressed air, cars and windmills.

Staying on topic, windmills have a problem in design in that their speed must be limited to procuce electricity. I.e. the wind mill rpm is governed by the alternator it is tied to. So additional possible power production is lost in strong wind.

What if the windmills were tied to aircompressors and the compressed air piped to large holding tanks in the middle of the wind farm? Then you could let the windmills run as fast as they will go in the wind.

The compressed air could be used to generate electricity or be pumped into our futur air powered cars.

Just a thought.

BTW This air car thing looks WAY better to me than the electric car since there are no batteries to go bad and be disposed of.

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07-14-2008 05:49 PM  9 years agoPost 34
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Staying on topic, windmills have a problem in design in that their speed must be limited to procuce electricity. I.e. the wind mill rpm is governed by the alternator it is tied to. So additional possible power production is lost in strong wind.
Not quite. It's true that the generator needs to run at a given RPM to produce the right frequency of electricity but...The blades on windmills are adjustable in their pitch. There is an upper limit close to 60mph. Careful planning of a site for wind power all but guarantees winds that are adequate to make the rated power of the generator.

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07-14-2008 05:57 PM  9 years agoPost 35
Topher

rrVeteran

Rochester, Michigan

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windmills
Oh you did not want to go there with me.
Staying on topic, windmills have a problem in design in that their speed must be limited to procuce electricity. I.e. the wind mill rpm is governed by the alternator it is tied to. So additional possible power production is lost in strong wind.
A windmill's rotor speed is governed by both the pitch and the electromagnetic torque induced by the DFIG (thats double-fed induction generator for you lamens). This is for most modern 1+MW windmills, fixed pitch WMs use aerodynamic stall. The torque can be controlled by using a braking chopper like you described or they can pump it into the grid or they can do what most modern designs do and let the rotor free wheel and reduce the slip on the DFIG. When the wind speed has fallen the slip is increased and the rotor is used as a flywheel absorbing that power over time.

A windmills max speed is normally only governed by its mechanical limitations. However you need to keep in mind that in a VPVS windmill its maximum efficiency is reached at low wind speeds unlike a FP or FS windmill which reaches it max efficiency at a specific tip speed or blade pitch, respectively (bell curve).
What if the windmills were tied to aircompressors and the compressed air piped to large holding tanks in the middle of the wind farm? Then you could let the windmills run as fast as they will go in the wind.
This would be incredibly stupid. Modern mills have power trains that are 95% efficient from rotor shaft to grid. Not only that but no way can you get the torque response of a electrical machine with an air pump. Not to mention how inefficient compressing air is instead of generating power and the maintenance that the air pump would require. A windmills speed is selected to obtain the most efficient tip speed ratio, letting them run faster decreases performance.
The compressed air could be used to generate electricity or be pumped into our futur air powered cars.
I'm going to play the efficiency card one more time.

will wash your heli for a quarter

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07-15-2008 01:34 AM  9 years agoPost 36
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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The second motor in the video seemed rather efficient

airpower is more eco friendly than battery powered

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07-15-2008 05:30 AM  9 years agoPost 37
Ravenhyper50

rrKey Veteran

Canada's Capital

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Another reason air power alone will never dominate the market @ least in colder climates like hear in Canada.

What about heat in the winter? Where is that going to come from??.....What about air conditioner???

Pistons powering a alternator to produce electricity for heat? and you need electricity for the compressor.. Does not seem very efficent

And why dont hybrid or electric cars not have the roof all made up of solar pannels

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07-15-2008 05:47 AM  9 years agoPost 38
Inspector Fuzz

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NLA

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The windmills would work fine for compressing air for compressed air motors. You would not have the wasteful step of converting to electricity and back to air again.

Good point on the heating and cooling. The cooling would be easier to accomplish. There is really no need for a heater in a car where I live.

The problem with Hybrid's is the damn battery. When that thing craps out you have to buy another and dispose of the chemicals. Same problem with electric cars. Although, I am more interested in pure electric than a hybrid.

The compressed air motor is very simple, no batteries to screw with and should run a very long time. It is more affordable and realistic at this point in time than the all electric car. 200km per fill-up is more than adequate for daily commuting and when you get home you plug it in and it is ready to go for the next day.

I am going to invest money in this technology through one of these pioneering companies. Waiting on info from them right now.

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07-15-2008 06:07 AM  9 years agoPost 39
Blade_Master1

rrElite Veteran

Canada

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people are getting confused in this thread

it isn't about producing electricity using an air supply

it is about powering an automobile using compressed air

as the vehicle rolls forward and you want to stop instead of using friction on a pair rotors you transfer that energy to a geared compressor to slow or stop the vehicle allowing 1 of the air tanks to refill.

this would increase its efficiency

another way to increase efficiency would be the use of an alternator to produce power for lights, A/C Unit,heater and compressor

it is quite possible to use CO2 as an emergency back up to get you home or to the closest service station to refill

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07-15-2008 06:51 AM  9 years agoPost 40
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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it is about powering an automobile using compressed air
I dont think anyone is confused, you guys just dont seem to comprehend this technologies shortcomings. Hydrogen and battery technology completely dominates over compressed air in every aspect. Thats why no one in their right mind uses it. Batteries are recycled and can be done with little impact to the environment just like whats already done with SLA car batteries. Tesla includes the price of battery recycling in the price of their car. If I get bored at work tomorrow, which I probably wont, I'll crunch some numbers to show you much energy gets wasted compressing and uncompressing that air. I dont see how that one guys engine is any more efficient than a gerotor could ever be.

If you guys want you cant crunch the numbers yourselves. A simple exergy analysis of the cycle would be sufficient to show the significant losses. A simple energy analysis using the ideal gas law might work as well if the temperatures are low enough.

will wash your heli for a quarter

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HelicopterOff Topics › The Air Car bye bye OPEC
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