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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Funkey 500E/Trex 600 Vibration problems
07-11-2008 01:49 AM  9 years agoPost 1
maxbrad450

rrNovice

Ottawa Canada

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Hi guys, I'm having a problem with vibrations in my 500E fuse. Shows up as shaking in the skids and T tail, bad enough to throw the top portion of the T on the second flight. I tore it all down, checked and rebalanced head and tail, added a second aluminum brace at the top of the frame to the fuse so it's secured on both sides (was only braced on one side before), raised the head speed from 1750 to 1825 and flew again with no improvement. On the last flight it started to get progressively worse. I have since restored it to stock 600E configuration and just got back from flying it and, sure enough it flies perfect.

So... I'm wondering first of all if maybe my head speed is too high? What head speeds are you guys running the 600E on when using scale bodies?

I'm also thinking I need to better brace the tail. I don't think the foam donut is providing any real support. How is this best done?

Any thoughts or suggestions welcomed, I would really like to get the bugs out of this one!

Trex 600e with XLmotor
Thunder Power 6S5000 LIPO
Belt driven tail
Tried woodies through carbons with no difference in vibrations

thanks
Brad

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07-15-2008 05:57 PM  9 years agoPost 2
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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Went through the same issue on a different fuselage. Found the solution over at thetrexforums. Apparently you need to tighten your main blades tighter than usual to prevent vibration, supposedly caused by the lead/lag of blades.

Hope this can solve your problem. It did for me.

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08-05-2008 06:37 AM  9 years agoPost 3
mstuck

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Valencia,​California-USA

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Hi there,
Not to go off topic with your shakes, but im
planing on putting that same fuse on my trex 600E.
How did the build go?
Woukd you recommend that for a first time scale build?
Any balance problems?
How about any tips?
Sorry about so many questions,
youre the first one ive seen with a 600E in this fuse.
I love the way it looks.
Do you have any pics you could PM me?
Good luck with youre vibration problem.
Thanks,
Mike

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08-05-2008 08:58 AM  9 years agoPost 4
SeaHawk

rrNovice

Ft. Lauderdale ,​Florida

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Trex600N align MD500E shakes

same problem here

see my post
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...?top=1217922842

haven't found solution yet
I built another vertical tail out of balsa and eliminated the horizontal tail for now until I find a better solution

as for Mike quetions
I find Align/Funkey version better than the Thunder Tiger Hughes scale kit
Align's goes together easier and looks more scale

...except for the persistant vibration problem noted above ,

Allan "Seahawk"
Flying low and slow

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08-06-2008 05:20 AM  9 years agoPost 5
maxbrad450

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Ottawa Canada

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I have been trying different blades and grip tensions on the stock pod and boom configuration and have found that increasing the grip tension in my case isn't helping. I was torquing them up tighter than usual due to the flybar issue on the scale install but it seams to make things worse. I have flown the same pair of fiberglass Funkey blades I was using with the scale body but with less tension on the pod and boom and there is no vibrations. If I tighten them up to the point where they were for the scale install, I see shakes in the gear. I have also flown a pair of MS Composite 600's with no vibration and the woodies are also dead smooth. Tomorrow night I am re installing the mechanics in the fuse and I'm going to try it with the woodies first. We have our annual Heli fun fly next weekend and I'm on vacation this week so I'm determined to get this solved. I'll keep you posted and thanks for your input guys.

Brad

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08-06-2008 05:31 AM  9 years agoPost 6
steph280

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Irvine, California

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Have you tried lowered head speed? Like around 1600 RPM?

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08-06-2008 05:59 AM  9 years agoPost 7
maxbrad450

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Ottawa Canada

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Actually that was one more thing to try if the problem persists. I did try going up from 1725 to about 1800 but that was clearly making things worse. I'm thinking around 1600?

BTW, has anyone secured there tail with anything other than the foam rubber supplied with the kit?

Brad

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08-06-2008 11:32 AM  9 years agoPost 8
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Couple Of Tricks!!!

Sorry to hear you are having vibration problems.... and they are tough to get rid of at times, but here are a couple of things that I would take a look at and try.....
The blades are very important, and you might just find that you like the woodies over the cf's, and semi-symetrical are even better... but you will want to stay in that 1750 + range, maybe even 1850... low head speed and too much pitch can/will cause your vibration, and you will loose your tail authority... take note if there is a specific spot that you see the vibration start(left stick position) and if there is, go to your pitch curve and reduce the pitch at that point, or both sides of that point by about 2 points and then check again.. if the vibe is less then take a little more out..you are "timing" the pitch to the power... From your explanation, I am thinking that the above might help....
As far as the blade tightness, spool up to just below hover speed and let the blades find their "straight"... then let the head stop by itself... then tighten the blades... just for testing, so that they do not swing... then spool up and see if the shake shows up...it not, then loosen them a little at a time and continue to try it...usually just a "snug" (they will not free fall if heli is on its side)fit will be fine and not cause a lead lag problem...
The foam donut in the tail boom usually works OK, BUT you can cut a plywood ring to go onto the boom and fit it tightly into the fuse and lock it in with foam or even tack glue it in...and one other trick would be to make the plywood rings for the front and rear of the tail boom, this acts as a replacement for the tail boom braces that you have to remove...
Good Luck, and I hope the info above might help you cure the problem... let us know!!!!! Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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08-06-2008 08:57 PM  9 years agoPost 9
gadgetdude

rrApprentice

Northern California

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Please see another thread on this exact same issue. I am getting to the point where I think something may need to be brought to the attention of Funkey/Align.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t442902p1/

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12-31-2008 12:02 AM  8 years agoPost 10
nrad2000

rrVeteran

USA

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I'm not sure if you already solved your vibration issue.

I too built a Funkey 500E 50 size with a Raven 50 mechanics w/ OS hyper. Raven flew fine in Pod and Boom form. I used the stock blades that the Raven 50SE came with.

In the beginning I had massive amount of vibration where it Jiggled out all the screws out of the windshield and the windshields came right off. The tail vibrated heavily, the kids shook tremendously. it was not flyable.

To make the story short - what I did was: 1) I fabricated another plywood brace for the top (right behind the swash plate) and epoxied it in place (that stiffed up the top tremendously). 2) I then braced the top of the mechs to that newly fabricated brace. 3) lot of the small vibrations occured from the landing skids ( just screwing it in did not secure it) - so I epoxied the skids where they come into contact with the body and in the plywood that supports the mechs. that eliminated all the vibrations in the skids. 4) i'm still using the foam that came with the tail - but make sure it is deep in - I pushed mine in further until it is really wedged in there. 5) You don't need high rpm - enough rpm just to hover at 5 -6 deg pitch. On spool up I get it up to RPM and let it sit their for about 10 - 15 sec. I don't know why but everything tends to settle in my 500E that when I lift up no vibrations.

I'm now working on the Bell 222 and that is a different story - I can't get it to stop wobbling on spool up.

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12-31-2008 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 11
coptercptn

rrElite Veteran

Mesa AZ. USA

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I've done 3 of these fuses with the TREX600 and I know if you don't support the upper area of the fuse (TIGHTLY) it will create a harmonic vibration that can shake the heli apart!! (ask me how I know this...)

Also, pay attention to your tail rotor. this can also create a problem if the blades are not balanced.. this accelerates as you raise head speed (and tail rotor speed?>>>>getting this?)

Most recently I was working on putting the "Century" 4 blade tail rotor on my 500E. I set it all up without the fuse on and it was smooth as silk. I put the fuse on...made one flight, again smooth as silk, then on the next flight all of a sudden the tail started vibrating severely. I managed to get it down and save it, but it literally shook the upper fuse loose and caused the swashplate to hit the doghouse causing damage.

I have taken this tail assy. apart numerous times and cannot find a problem with it..I spooled it up with just the hub...smooth, then the grips and hub...smooth, put the blades on...Vibration is back. replaced the head with a stock align 2 blade..and it's smooth as silk again...Go figure???

anyway, I would check into the tail rotor as well. As others have said, Main blades can make a huge difference also! Nothing is easy!!!

good luck!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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12-31-2008 01:38 AM  8 years agoPost 12
nrad2000

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USA

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I've never balanced a tail blade before and a few weeks ago I was really tempted to do so because my bell 222 demonstrates some tail vibrations (up down). anyway, how do you balance tail blades when they are so light in weight?

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12-31-2008 01:59 AM  8 years agoPost 13
WrenFlyer

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Mississippi

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I had the same problem with my 500E (Century..same thing though). Fought with all the same results, until I lowered the HS. I'm now at 1470 and it's smooth as silk! Running a Neu 1907/1Y/H motor with a 10 tooth pinion. Current flight time is 10 minutes.

Watch at YouTube

Mr. Haney

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12-31-2008 02:18 AM  8 years agoPost 14
WrenFlyer

rrVeteran

Mississippi

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Here's a better filmed flight on Vimeo:

http://www.vimeo.com/2373179

Mr. Haney

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12-31-2008 03:35 AM  8 years agoPost 15
maxbrad450

rrNovice

Ottawa Canada

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Hi guys, I did manage to get the problem solved by a combination of a small increase head speed from 1725 to 1850 and changing to the carbon blades I was saving until the vibrations went away. I also loosened the tension on the grips to keep the blades just tight enough from folding on spool up. If they were too tight, I would get the shakes on spool up until they found their centers. All the vibrations in the skids are gone and I only occasionally get a small vibration in the top of the tail. It seems to come and go but it's not a problem at this point. I certainly don't have to worry about throwing the T top off the tail again. Thanks to everyone for their input, it seems most of these problems come down to bracing everything well, careful balancing and trying different head speeds and blades until you find the sweet spot... and then hope it flies the same the next time out! It's worth it though, it looks great in the air!
Brad

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12-31-2008 04:11 AM  8 years agoPost 16
dnguyen77

rrNovice

Milpitas, CA

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I got the same exact problem, and it end up being the main blade. I changed it to CY 600 and fly smooth now.

Alan

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12-31-2008 05:03 AM  8 years agoPost 17
Double E

rrApprentice

Atlanta, GA

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I scaled up my TREX 450 with one of the Heli Artist Hughes 500D bodies. When attaching the mechanics to the body I use some rubber from an old bicycle tire to use as dampeners on the body mounts. I also avoided using the rigid tail boom supports and used a medium density foam cut to size to wedge into the tail between the fuselage and the boom. I realize that I'm only using a 450 but I think the concept of using some soft contact points helps reduce the transmission of vibration from the mechanics to the fuselage. Good luck.

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12-31-2008 06:04 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Star1

rrApprentice

San Jose CA

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I have a 500D % and a 500E. My green colored D model is shown under the 2007 Circumgyration videos if anybody wants to look at it. What I did, as well as 5 of my other friends that have this same body, was to epoxy the T tail, then we screw it down with two small screws. We then bolted the tail assembly snug enough, but we placed rubber O rings between the tail assembly and the rear T-tail so that the fiberglass was not leaning against the plastic tail case. What I also did to my models, and what some of my other friends did as well, was not to screw the top of the fuselage to the mechanics. The top part around the dog house floats free. However, the braces are still in place, just not bolted down. My theory behind this was that I wanted the mechanics to move freewly on top. The braces just lean against the mechanics to prevent the fuselage body from moving excessively. The mechanics are then only bolted down at the bottom where the landing gears goes. I did this to my Agusta 109, my EC 135, and one of my Hueys with success. I never had any vibration issues with any of these models. I do not run low head speeds. In fact, I could go to idle up at higher head speeds and still no vibrations.

I did encounter small vibrations on the D model only when the main blades are not straight. What I did was to spool it up to about 2000 RPM's. I then slowly spool down until the blades were not moving any more. I then grabed my black Sharpie marker and I marked the main blades around the main blade grips. I did this so that when I fold the blades back to transport it, and then unfold them out again, I know where the blades need to be without having to spool up. I have my blade grips tighter than my pod and booms. But since the blades are pre-marked to the correct position, I dont have to worry that they are going to be off track. The only time I encounter vibrations is when the blades are not center.

I used the stock foam O ring for the rear tail boom and I have never had any issues. But I did squeezed the O ring all the way to the back, about half an inch away from the rear tail case. As soon it was in placed I glued the foam to the fiberglass fuselage leaving the aluminun boom to move freely. This made for a really tight fit, but not tight enough that it will not come out.

Every helo is different, but this seems to work good for me and my buddies helos.

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08-21-2011 01:40 AM  6 years agoPost 19
GWolz

rrNovice

Turlock, CA USA

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Vibration problems with Funkey 500 Scales

The biggest problems arise from having the battery, if your Heli is Electric, too far forward.

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