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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Cheaper V-Bar?
07-10-2008 12:13 AM  9 years agoPost 1
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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A mate emailed me a link to this:
http://www.skookumrobotics.com/

Looks like a slightly cheaper version of something like the Mikado V-Bar Electronic Flybar System.

It's still way out of my price range but looks interesting...


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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07-10-2008 12:22 AM  9 years agoPost 2
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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About this time last year, I was exceedingly interested in Vbar but the cost was more than I could justify so I carried on mucking around with the 720 approach. However, after deciding to cheer myself up after a gruelling time with work, I've just treated myself to a Logo 600 3D with Vbar. Now, it ain't at all expensive, something around £300 compared to £500 last year. For that you also get the tail gyro. This is a tremendous piece of kit offering all the advantages of integration and great setup software not to mention the weight and realestate advantage. I haven't flown it yet cos I'm still building but judging by what others have said, it's performance will do no less than impress. £300 is GREAT value for such a high quality product.

I've also had my eye on the SK360 but somehow it didn't grab me like the Vbar as you still need a tail gyro.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-10-2008 12:30 AM  9 years agoPost 3
Harshflyer

rrApprentice

Seattle, Wa.

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A single 19 gram unit. The manual shows a Trex as a example ship for setup. I have been watching this flybarless software for awhile, and this "sounds" good. Mikado V-Bar is probably the best from what I have seen.$$$$

Cyloc with 2 large gyros was a option, but thats alot of realastate for a 450 size chopper.

I hope someone out there can give a hands on about this product.
It would go good with a Futaba 10C in a scale ship.

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07-10-2008 02:41 AM  9 years agoPost 4
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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Seems pretty good jason. Do you need another gyro with it?

It's still $333 NZ cheaper than the mikado if you have the gyro's required. I might take a look at this for the scale 500 defender.
Possibly multibladed head.
hmmmm.....

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07-10-2008 02:44 AM  9 years agoPost 5
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Apparently not, from the FAQ:
Why doesn’t it include a yaw gyro, if the other two axes are already there?

Because there would be no cost savings to the customer, especially since you probably already have a good yaw gyro. In addition, the physics of the yaw axis are different than pitch/roll, so we’d like to keep to our area of expertise and let you keep using your favourite tail gyro.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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07-10-2008 02:55 AM  9 years agoPost 6
jbdww

rrElite Veteran

Round Rock, Texas

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I put one of these on my 450 and it flies great. The setup was not to difficult and just like any other electronic flybar it requires some fiddling to get it right. I would like to try it on my 600N, but I have not heard how well it works with nitro yet.
Joe

Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/

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07-10-2008 03:43 AM  9 years agoPost 7
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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Thanks Joe.
Cheers Jason....I didn't read the frequently asked question....being lazy!

As far as nitro goes I'd imagine the only possible difference would be vibration and with adequate vibration damping it should work fine?

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07-10-2008 04:39 AM  9 years agoPost 8
Mike Fortin

rrElite Veteran

USA

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There is also the CSM Cyclock, if you already have gyros this is a good choice and very inexpensive.

As I type I am actually setting one up on my Vibe 50.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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07-10-2008 08:09 AM  9 years agoPost 9
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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Thanks Mike. I will look at that deal also.
I am really getting interested in this flybarless head setup.

Is it a lot of phaffing about to set it up? Are they really as good as flybars in terms of flight?

Will all of them work on mccpm heli's like an HPM sceadu evo 50 which is going into my defender fuse. Sorry bit of a newbie on this flybarless stuff.
Cheers

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07-10-2008 08:10 AM  9 years agoPost 10
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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also what if it fails.....are they unflyable?

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07-10-2008 08:13 AM  9 years agoPost 11
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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One thing to note here, Vstabi is more expensive, no doubt. I have now seen all other systems, sks, ac3x, gyrobot, and still the Vstabi does in fact fly best out of all of them.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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07-10-2008 08:20 AM  9 years agoPost 12
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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One thing to note here, Vstabi is more expensive, no doubt. I have now seen all other systems, sks, ac3x, gyrobot, and still the Vstabi does in fact fly best out of all of them.
Hi there OICU812....in terms of best flight characteristics is the V stabi heads and shoulders above the rest. In what sort of flight? 3D etc. Would it any be better than the others in gentle flight like scale? What would be noticed in terms of difference mainly.

I'd like a very stable hover but of course well behaved FFF characteristics are very desirable as well.

The CSM does require 2 gyros that I don't have so the expense is getting up there.

Cheers

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07-10-2008 08:48 AM  9 years agoPost 13
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Where the Vstabi shines in comparison is in 3D yes. For slow forward flight or scale projects, the others would do to be honest yes. Now that being said, I still feel from examining each of these other systems that the benifits for scale or sport flying is still there as well in Vstabi, reason being is it is more tuneable to different blades that are on the market, as well everyone has their own specific feel they like in flight, Vstabi will get you exactly what you want for feel. In a year to two there may be a smaller gap between all the systems and upcoming ones, the biggest advantage of Vstabi currently is they are constantly improving the software/firmware and the developors themselves are great pilots that also support the general public daily on forums and on the wiki site, that is a big plus. Even the last 6 months there have been several updates and improvements to Vstabi and how it works and its simplicity to setup, cheers.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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07-10-2008 08:51 AM  9 years agoPost 14
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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BTW one of the things you can think of to compare the different systems as one example would be to pay attention to oscillations and what appears to be disc flutter/vibes in videos. Allot of the other sytems currently on the market get this when the gains are turned up. When trying to get firm control of the disc itself some systems become somewhat unstable and unpredictable imho.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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07-10-2008 09:14 AM  9 years agoPost 15
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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hey thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Cheers
Glenn

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07-10-2008 02:41 PM  9 years agoPost 16
jbdww

rrElite Veteran

Round Rock, Texas

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So fare 3D with the SK360 seems to be really solid. I am not a stick banger, but I do inverted flight. Tic-Tocs seems to be very smooth. I do not do piro flips yet so I am not sure about this. The gyros are using are 12Bit so it is better than say a 401Gyro. There was a time where the SK360 was having issues with vibration, but the latest software update supposed to have fixed this. You can use 90 eCCPM, 120 eCCPM, 135/140 eCCPM, and mCCPM on the sk360. The sk360 does provide two pots on the back so you can do some adjustments while out at the field without laptop.
Joe

Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/

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07-10-2008 03:59 PM  9 years agoPost 17
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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The area where Vstabi will outperform the others is in piro manoeuvres since it has the TR rotor gyro integrated in the system. When performing any piro manoeuvre and the system is compensating then there will be a finite amount of time from when the cyclic gyros detect an unwanted movement until it and the servos has had a chance to respond. During this time the heli will have rotated X degrees and the response will be X degrees out of phase to the original movement. This will cause the system to react again to the correction and so on which will cause a wobble during piro manoeuvres. This is more pronounced when the cyclic gyro gain is high. The Vstabi can account for this as it knows how fast the heli is rotating due to the feedback from the TR gyro. Vstabi is currently the only system that I know that has this feature although I have heard that CSM is working on this issue (I am guessing a new version of the CycLock or an integrated 3-axis system).

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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07-10-2008 04:06 PM  9 years agoPost 18
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Perhaps that's why we haven't heard from Collin for a long time. The last time he was active on RR was during the early flybarless debates.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-10-2008 04:10 PM  9 years agoPost 19
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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Yes the last I heard from him was at the 3D master last year when he was demonstrating his flybarless system on a Trex 600E tied to a 2x4 inside a tent. Now if he has demonstrated the wobble during piros inside the tent then I sure he would have cleared out every one in a hurry

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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07-10-2008 08:24 PM  9 years agoPost 20
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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VBar all the way for me , it simply just works perfect and the programing is way easier then the rest of the copy cats or the trying to copy cat the VBar.........lol

the csm im sure is the next best thing or even close to a vbar as far as a working system, but you gotta mount 3 720 gyros and a cyclock, and all those dam messy wires everywhere.

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