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HelicopterOff Topics › Dems are not as clean as some like to claim.
07-09-2008 09:50 PM  9 years agoPost 1
RonHill

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http://www.portfolio.com/news-marke...de-Loan-Scandal

Why is it if a Republican makes a misstep that it gets posted in a second....But no mention of this?

Senators Christopher Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut and chairman of the Banking Committee, and Kent Conrad, Democrat from North Dakota, chairman of the Budget Committee and a member of the Finance Committee, refinanced properties through Countrywide’s “V.I.P.” program in 2003 and 2004, according to company documents and emails and a former employee familiar with the loans.

Also getting sweet deals:

Donna Shalala - she served for eight years as Secretary of Health and Human Services under President Clinton

Richard Holbrooke who worked for Kerry and HRC

James Johnson he is a member of the vice-presidential selection process for the presumptive Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama.

Now the Repubs also got dirty; Alphonso Jackson the former head of HUD got sweet deal as well.

Lets not over look Obama's loan deals as well

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8070103008.html
The freshman Democratic senator received a discount. He locked in an interest rate of 5.625 percent on the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage, below the average for such loans at the time in Chicago. The loan was unusually large, known in banker lingo as a "super super jumbo." Obama paid no origination fee or discount points, as some consumers do to reduce their interest rates.

In Obama's case, he received a lower rate than the average offered at the time in Chicago for similarly structured jumbo loans. He secured his final mortgage commitment on June 8, 2005, and during that week, rates on similar loans for which information is available averaged 5.93 percent, according to HSH Associates, which surveys lenders. Another survey firm, Bankrate.com, placed the average at 6 percent.

The Obamas had no prior relationship with Northern Trust when they applied for the loan. They received an oral commitment on Feb. 4, 2005, and locked in the rate of 5.625 percent, the campaign said. On that date, HSH data show, the average rate in Chicago for a 30-year fixed-rate jumbo loan with no points was about 5.94 percent.

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07-09-2008 10:27 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Captain Obvious

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If i get a mortgage today i could get:

6.215% from Mort Cap Associates

or 6.868% from Chase.

No points. Which should i pick?

Will you vote for me if i pick the higher one?

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07-09-2008 10:43 PM  9 years agoPost 3
RonHill

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Captain Obvious

If i get a mortgage today i could get:

6.215% from Mort Cap Associates

or 6.868% from Chase.

No points. Which should i pick?
It would be like me offering you 5.8 even though you know 6.2 is the lowest you could normally get and not finding that at all fishy.

The chairman of the Banking Committee and the chairman of the Budget Committee and a member of the Finance Committee both got lower rates than ANYONE else was getting without paying any points or even paying origination fees.

To claim that they didn't know they were getting special treatment....you would have to claim that they didn't know enough to find out the normal rates and wonder why they got better than normal rates.

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07-09-2008 10:52 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Captain Obvious

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The Obamas had no prior relationship with Northern Trust when they applied for the loan. They received an oral commitment on Feb. 4, 2005, and locked in the rate of 5.625 percent, the campaign said. On that date, HSH data show, the average rate in Chicago for a 30-year fixed-rate jumbo loan with no points was about 5.94 percent.
Sir, please read this statement again.

pay particular attention to the words "average rate in Chicago".

It just so happens Obamma got .315 % less than average.

I can get .326 less than todays average today myself. I'm nothing special, its nothing criminal, and frankly, i would be stupid if i didn't.

PS i'm not voting for Obama. Plenty of reasons not to, but this is not one of those reasons.

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07-09-2008 10:56 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Rob_T

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So Obama paid "less than the average".

Do you really want to have a president that's so stupid they pay more than average? I always thought controlling one's spending is a good thing - especially in public office.

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07-09-2008 10:59 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Rob_T

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By the way - I get 0.5% less on my home equity loan than average. Does that make me some sort of corrupt politician, or just someone that knows how to work the system?

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07-09-2008 10:59 PM  9 years agoPost 7
RonHill

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Captain Obvious, Rob

Read the whole article in the link I posted.

You can claim all day that nothing was done wrong...Fine.

But that same little snippet says "The Obamas had no prior relationship with Northern Trust when they applied for the loan."

It is not normal to get a lower than normal rate with a company that you have no history with. Especially when you add in no fees.

Also read about Dodd and Conrad.

Then read the first paragraph of my 1st post again.

"Why is it if a Republican makes a misstep that it gets posted in a second....But no mention of this?"

So care to answer how the Chairmen of the Budget and Banking Committee's did not notice they were given better deals than they should expect?

And then answer why Dem Senators seem to always get a pass, like you are giving them, on things like this?

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07-09-2008 11:08 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Rob_T

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Then read the first paragraph of my 1st post again.

"Why is it if a Republican makes a misstep that it gets posted in a second....But no mention of this?"
Nice paradox!
It is not normal to get a lower than normal rate with a company that you have no history with. Especially when you add in no fees.
I don't agree. Just keep shopping until you find someone hungry for the business. All things are negotiable - isn't being a good negotiator part of the job of being a politician?

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07-09-2008 11:22 PM  9 years agoPost 9
RonHill

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Rob

Nice paradox!
Yep, "a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth."

You know very well that if it was McCain that there would be several posters making statements that this "proves" he is corrupt. The Country wide article is almost a mth old...yet ZERO mention of it till mine.
I don't agree. Just keep shopping until you find someone hungry for the business. All things are negotiable - isn't being a good negotiator part of the job of being a politician?
Isn't knowing when you are being given possible favors a part of being a politician also?

The Chair of the Banking and Budget Committee's should have been able to tell they were getting better than normal deals.

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07-10-2008 08:42 AM  9 years agoPost 10
Tintin

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Grasping at straws are we?

I've figured you out now. First you try to make a point of one thing, when it turns out that wasn't really a big deal or you were wrong, you focus entirely on another matter so it won't show.....

Good luck with your arguing Ron, I'll get back to my vacation

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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07-10-2008 04:47 PM  9 years agoPost 11
RonHill

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Tintin

Nope Tintin.

Try again. Maybe you should read the first post again slowly and see if you can grasp the point...Maybe read it twice. Maybe read the first paragraph three times....I have already pointed that out twice...Shame I had to point it out to you a third time.

But you have a history of ignoring facts about anything you do not agree with.

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07-10-2008 06:54 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Captain Obvious

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The guy in front of me at the car wash got a "VIP" wash and wax for 40$!!! thats 3$ off the regular price!

Salesman said it was because it was a "slow day" and he needed to keep employees busy.... i saw the whole thing! He was the friggin anticrist!

Its OK though, i gave the licence plate number to the police.

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07-10-2008 07:20 PM  9 years agoPost 13
scatbass

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Ron - I normally agree with you, but on this issue - sorry, but it does seem like you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I've done the same thing as Obama with lenders that I too had no previous relationship with. Politician or not, all things in real estate are negotiable.

If there were a difference of several points, sure there ~might~ be a red flag...but in this instance, base solely on the information posted above, nothing really stands out.

As noted, there are plenty of more legitimate reasons to go after a politician.



Mike

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07-10-2008 08:21 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Tintin

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Well there you go......

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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07-10-2008 09:00 PM  9 years agoPost 15
RonHill

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scat

You need to read the first paragraph again also.

"Why is it if a Republican makes a misstep that it gets posted in a second....But no mention of this?"

Why is it that if this was an article about Republicans...Several on here would be using this as "proof" of wrong doing. Yet the opposite does not happen? I am willing to bet that this thread would already be 3 pages long if it was republicans listed instead of dems.

Why is it that I think your/Rob's response would be the SAME no matter who the object of the article is, but we all know that if this was a list of Repubs there would be a long list of people using it as proof of republican wrong doing....Yet they are silent now?

BTW, Yours/Robs...Even Captain Obvious's answers are pretty much what I would expect...And really pretty much in line with my own feelings.
But if you had said those SAME things in a thread about McCain getting a good rate...You would have been called names and insulted by others.

The only person so far that has said anything close to an insult is Tintin....And I expected as much from him.

But the rest of your argued the ISSUE, not the person.

Why is it that some want a lynch squad when the "other" party does it...Yet they are more than willing to totally ignore it when it is their party?

And some are going to ignore the topic and just insult the posters.

I was reading this....

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t444430p1/

And was amazed at the different ways the two sides "fight".

So I decided to test it....I got pretty much what I expected.

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07-10-2008 09:05 PM  9 years agoPost 16
scatbass

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"Why is it if a Republican makes a misstep that it gets posted in a second....But no mention of this?"
In short - because as pointed out, there is really not much to make an issue of here, other than a 1/3 point savings. You're making an assumption that a repub in the same situation would be called out for this. I would disagree, though there is no way to prove whether this is true or not...we can only speculate based on history.

While I do agree that, in general, the Rep side gets chastised more readily by the media than the Dems...I do not believe that this particular issue would be called out.



Mike

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