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HelicopterMain Discussion › How to set the cyclic pitch? weird off-set
07-09-2008 04:48 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Mavrik1

rrApprentice

USA

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On my Trex 450 my cyclic pitch is 10° right and 5° left. I checked it with the collective at center stick and the blades is at zero degrees to the flybar and blades parallel with the boom. The swashplate is level using a tool. When adjusting the aileron percent in the swash mix/aileron it just reduces/increases. How do I make them the same?

I'm not real sure if my DX6i is set up properly, like on the swash mix is aileron +70, elevator -80, pitch +65. I have read that these numbers should all be positive, but it's the only way I could get proper control with HS65MG servos.

The bottom line is having fun.

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07-09-2008 04:54 PM  9 years agoPost 2
QuantumPSI

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta, GA

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That is weird. I hate to be the one to say this, but you need to check the obvious things. Even I must say that something sounds way off.

Make sure all the linkages are symmetric
Make sure you have equal travel on the servos
No trim
No weird dual rates (on some radios, you can limit the travel in a single direction)
Control arms are the same length
Using pitch gauge correctly (sounds stupid I know, but I made a similar mistake just last night where I mounted the pitch gauge incorrectly)

what happens with elevator?

A picture would be nice if you can upload one.

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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07-09-2008 04:57 PM  9 years agoPost 3
nmrs

rrApprentice

Austin, TX

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I'm not real sure if my DX6i is set up properly, like on the swash mix is aileron +70, elevator -80, pitch +65. I have read that these numbers should all be positive, but it's the only way I could get proper control with HS65MG servos.
Your swash setup in the radio looks fine. The negative is just reversing the elevator so it will react correctly.

If you want them to all be positive, you can go into the reversing menu and reverse your elevator servo, then you can set the elevator to +80, but it really doesn't matter at all either way. [EDIT]Don't do this, it won't work[/EDIT]

As for the huge difference in pitch from one side to the other, you probably need to redo the setup on your head. Remove all the links and set them to the proper lengths from the manual. Then level your swash across the pitch range. Then measure. If it's still off, then I'm not sure. Maybe see if anything is bent...

450 se v2

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07-09-2008 05:06 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Swoop

rrElite Veteran

Newark, DE USA

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I'm not real sure if my DX6i is set up properly, like on the swash mix is aileron +70, elevator -80, pitch +65. I have read that these numbers should all be positive, but it's the only way I could get proper control with HS65MG servos.
It is not neccessary for all 3 values to be positive. Its just a function of which of the 3cyclic servos are reversed. If your control directions are correct, your good.

As for your first question, not sure.

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07-09-2008 05:07 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Swoop

rrElite Veteran

Newark, DE USA

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nmrs has quicker fingers than me

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07-09-2008 05:09 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Mavrik1

rrApprentice

USA

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The elevator is 9° forward 8° aft. No duel rate/expo used (DX6i). I do have sub trims on elev, aile and pitch. It doesn't seem there is enough linkage rod to adjust to a mechanical trim, or is there? Just seems the less rod in the links would be weak.

I assume the washout hub should be all the way up at full throttle/pitch?

What would you like a picture of?

The bottom line is having fun.

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07-09-2008 05:22 PM  9 years agoPost 7
Mavrik1

rrApprentice

USA

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OK thanks, I see from the advice that I have to set up all mechanical first.

For those using the HS65MG on the Trex 450 are you using the 3rd hole from the center?

The bottom line is having fun.

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07-09-2008 05:37 PM  9 years agoPost 8
artimus

rrKey Veteran

Buckley WA

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Your swash mix should be the same accross the board mine is set to
60 60 -60. If they are not the same your throw will not be the same on all servos.....The Trex is desingned to have this mix. Start with the raido set up this way and make sure all your mixing arms and servo arms are set to 90 degrees and your swash is level.Set your blades to 0 degrees at mid stick. You should be dead nutz on with this starting point.

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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07-09-2008 05:50 PM  9 years agoPost 9
artimus

rrKey Veteran

Buckley WA

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I'm not real sure if my DX6i is set up properly, like on the swash mix is aileron +70, elevator -80, pitch +65. I have read that these numbers should all be positive, but it's the only way I could get proper control with HS65MG servos.
The reason one is set to a negative value is because of the travel direction of the rear servo is opposite of the front two. Set the servos so they travel the proper direction when input is given. To get them to work the in unison (all go up and down together) the rear one has to have - numbers. IF all three are facing the same way they all move the same direction, now turn one to face the other two it will be backwards.....this is why it needs to have a negitave value.
Hope this helps....

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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07-09-2008 06:20 PM  9 years agoPost 10
nmrs

rrApprentice

Austin, TX

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For those using the HS65MG on the Trex 450 are you using the 3rd hole from the center?
I actually find the second hole from the center on the straight arm gets me closest to 90 degrees. Note, I had to trim the end off of the servo arm for the bottom front servo so it won't get caught in the main gear. Also make sure that the bottom servo is on the left side of the heli when looking at the nose so that if it does go into the main gear it will just click off of it rather than jamming the gear.
Your swash mix should be the same accross the board mine is set to
60 60 -60. If they are not the same your throw will not be the same on all servos.....
Actually it is ok to have these numbers be different. You want them to all be 60 during initial setup, leveling, etc. But once everything is set up and you are getting even pitch throw at top and bottom and even cyclic throw at top and bottom, you can adjust these numbers to expand or shrink your pitch range. If at 60 you are measuring +-10 degrees of pitch, but you want to run +-12, you set you pitch gauge to 12 and raise that number (to 65, 70, whatever) until the pitch gauge gets level. The aileron and elevator settings do the same for the cyclic pitch. If you want to tame the heli, reduce the numbers. If you want to make it even more nimble, raise them.

450 se v2

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07-09-2008 06:22 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Skarn

rrVeteran

Pasadena, MD

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Your swash mix should be the same accross the board mine is set to 60 60 -60
They don't have to all be the same at all. For example, if you want a faster roll rate but are happy with your flip rate, you can increase the percentage of AIL to have more roll pitch.

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

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07-09-2008 08:19 PM  9 years agoPost 12
bigdog714

rrVeteran

Rochester, MN U.S.A.

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Start at the beginning.
Make sure the end points for the servos are at 100%

Subtrim at 0

Dual rate at 100% with no expo.

Set a linear pitch curve 0 25 50 75 100

Move the pitch gimbal to center stick for 0 pitch

Make sure all the horns are horizantle, if you need to go into the subtrim and adjust them there.

Usually Align gives you the correct horn length based on the make of the servo, go to the Horizon web site and look at the manual for the 450SA, its the most indepth manual for the 450.

Check that the ball links are at the recommended lengths

Use your triad to make the final adjustments.

Use the CCPM mix menu to adjust the collective, and the cyclic.

Adjust the pitch percentage for 12/12 pitch.

Remember that the positive and negative value of the CCPM mix percentages are used to reverse the operation of all servos for set function.For example, if you give left aileron and the servos move right with a value of +60, simply change it to -60 and the servos will now move left.

Adjust the aileron and elevator percentages for 7/7.

I havn't set up a 450 in a while, but in CCPM you will find that the elevator and aileron settings are greater than the pitch. My T-Rex 600EP is at pitch 35% for 12/12, aieron and elevator at 68% for 9/9.

MD 800
Logo 600SE
Logo 14/500 Carbon
Ballistic 700
HD 500V2
Hirobo 50E
Avant 90E

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07-09-2008 08:25 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Mavrik1

rrApprentice

USA

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It's amazing what a proper setup did to improve this issue.
I now have 8.5 / 8

The bottom line is having fun.

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07-09-2008 11:12 PM  9 years agoPost 14
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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if you are going to give out advice on RR at least be sure its correct,I'm not saying I'm a know it all, but if I dont know something I say so,or find out the proper answer dont just post anything
If you want them to all be positive, you can go into the reversing menu and reverse your elevator servo, then you can set the elevator to +80, but it really doesn't matter at all either way.
if you do this the elevator servo will move the wrong way when you are giving pitch,it does matter either way
Your swash mix should be the same accross the board mine is set to
60 60 -60. If they are not the same your throw will not be the same on all servos.....The Trex is desingned to have this mix
its almost impossible to have 10-12 deg of collective pitch and 7-8 deg of cyclic pitch if all your settings are the same,most set ups will need a little bit more cyclic throw to get the proper numbers

all I'm saying is make sure you post solid advice, newbies read this and take it as gospel,you tell a newbie(not refering to Maverik) to rev his elevator servo then reverse the ele swash function and he'll be there all day trying to figure out why the swash doesn't go up and down on the mainshaft level

Compass helis Support Team
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Mini Titan/SE
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07-10-2008 12:36 AM  9 years agoPost 15
nmrs

rrApprentice

Austin, TX

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If you want them to all be positive, you can go into the reversing menu and reverse your elevator servo, then you can set the elevator to +80, but it really doesn't matter at all either way.
if you do this the elevator servo will move the wrong way when you are giving pitch,it does matter either way
You're totally wrong here. You need to see the way the elevator servo moves. If it is moving reverse of what it is supposed to (i.e. pushing stick forward tilts swash back), you can reverse it in either of two ways:

1) Reverse the servo on the servo reverse menu
or
2) Reverse the elevator on the swash menu (i.e. take it from +60 to -60 or vice versa)

[EDIT]He was totally right here. I was wrong. Don't do this, it doesn't work.[/EDIT]
if you are going to give out advice on RR at least be sure its correct,I'm not saying I'm a know it all, but if I dont know something I say so,or find out the proper answer dont just post anything
Before you call out people for giving what you think is incorrect advice, make sure you have your facts straight.

[EDIT] Probably should have taken my own advice here. He's right, I'm wrong[/EDIT]

Did you notice that Swoop gave the exact advice I did?
It is not neccessary for all 3 values to be positive. Its just a function of which of the 3cyclic servos are reversed. If your control directions are correct, your good.
you tell a newbie(not refering to Maverik) to rev his elevator servo then reverse the ele swash function and he'll be there all day trying to figure out why the swash doesn't go up and down on the mainshaft level
I wasn't telling him to do both. I was telling him that either would accomplish the goal of reversing the servo direction. If his elevator servo is moving correctly, he doesn't need to be concerned that it is showing a negative value in the swash menu.

As I stated above, only if he wanted it to show positive in the swash menu, then he could do both. A non-reversed servo and a negative swash mix is going to have the same output as a reversed servo and a positive swash mix.

[EDIT]The above won't work[/EDIT]
If you want them to all be positive, you can go into the reversing menu and reverse your elevator servo, then you can set the elevator to +80, but it really doesn't matter at all either way.
I was assuming that his servo is moving correctly since he never claimed it wasn't, so to get the swash number positive, he would have to reverse the servo from the servo reverse menu.

450 se v2

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07-10-2008 12:50 AM  9 years agoPost 16
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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try your suggestion and tell me what happens

reverse only the elevator servo then reverse the ele function in the swash menu,see what happens when you give positive pitch

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

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07-10-2008 12:54 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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You'd be amazed at how much swash interaction or cyclic errors you get from the smallest of geometric errors. Zero all offsets to start with, get your horns as close to 90' as you can get. You'll probably then need to use a small amount of offset to get it dead on. Then with zero pitch, adjust your linkages until the swash is dead level and make sure that you have symmetrical movement of the swash for +/- collective input. Then with the swash at zero pitch, adjust the linkages to the head to give you zero pitch. At this point it is worth checking the blades at 0', 90' 180' and 270 to make sure things are still true because errors can creep in. An accurate mechanical setup and good symmetry are very important and need to be achieved before tweeking with the rest.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-10-2008 01:00 AM  9 years agoPost 18
Mavrik1

rrApprentice

USA

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I did the + setting on the elevator and the reverse change when I first got my DX6i, never seen a programmable TX before in my life (and still learning). It did some weird stuff, reversed the stick controls, pitch on the collective stick and collective on the pitch stick.
I didn't think to ask, trail and error it till it worked, it drove me nuts. The instruction manual is no help at all, I guess the manufacture thinks only experience people will buy one.

I got the cyclic pitch generally set (I only have so much patients for tedious things) Now my stationary flips, looks like flips!!

The bottom line is having fun.

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07-10-2008 01:01 AM  9 years agoPost 19
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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did the + setting on the elevator and the reverse change when I first got my DX6i, never seen a programmable TX before in my life. It did some weird stuff, reversed the stick controls, pitch on the collective stick and collective on the pitch stick.
as I said you cant just reverse one servo and switch the +/- in the swash menu when you give pitch the elevator servo will move in the wrong direction
Before you call out people for giving what you think is incorrect advice, make sure you have your facts straight
I tried it on 2 helis right in front of me before I posted

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
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07-10-2008 01:15 AM  9 years agoPost 20
nmrs

rrApprentice

Austin, TX

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as I said you cant just reverse one servo and switch the +/- in the swash menu when you give pitch the elevator servo will move in the wrong direction
Holy wrong assumptions Batman! I guess I just assumed that this would work without having tried it. I tried it and, what do you know, it failed miserably.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

450 se v2

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