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HelicopterOff Topics › Is Ford heading in the right direction?
07-08-2008 03:27 PM  9 years agoPost 1
derek533

rrApprentice

Edmond, Oklahoma

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Check out the Ford Flex (not flex fuel, just the name of the car). Looks pretty spiffy. It definitely appears as though Ford is trying to right the ship judging by this vehicle. Despite the mileage, it sure looks nice and the interior appears to be very well done for a Ford. The Ford Taurus X is getting rave reviews as well.

Ford Flex

Ford Taurus X

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07-08-2008 03:36 PM  9 years agoPost 2
kryptik

rrNovice

South Carolina

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So, what's the difference between the Flex, and any other vehicle? The mileage sucks just as bad as a larger vehicle, that is capable of more. It seems like another bandaid...one that isn't even placed over the cut. They just don't seem to get it...

If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't ...

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07-08-2008 03:44 PM  9 years agoPost 3
derek533

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Edmond, Oklahoma

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I'm just talking about in terms of design concept and execution. Let's not forget that Ford has been very conservative with their design cues and this seems to be a vehicle that is somewhat of a bold move on their part. Forget about energy for a minute and focus on one thing at a time. If Ford can create the buzz for this vehicle and sell it for close to MSRP without having to take huge discounts on it to move it, then that will be a positive step for them.

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07-08-2008 03:49 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Bart B

rrKey Veteran

chicago illinois

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The Flex is really cool but I settled on a limited X.
Although it's a little boring,I'm pretty happy with it.Has the awd,bluetooth,nav.263 hp tops out at 114 mph....but it rides very nice and quiet.
Great heli hauler.I take my dogs to the office,so it works out great for them,they get to ride all the way in back with their own climate control

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07-08-2008 03:52 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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Ford is screwed. I work right down the road from their world HQ and know a good amount of people that work there. They are done for, the Ford family crooks have sucked everything they can from the company and left it to die. It doesnt matter how nice of an SUV they make when gas is $4.15 a gallon. They only have three vehicles in the future markets, the focus, fusion, and hybrid escape. And none of them will compete with future technology that GM, toyota, and honda will be dishing out by the end of 2010.

will wash your heli for a quarter

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07-08-2008 03:58 PM  9 years agoPost 6
kryptik

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South Carolina

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I'm just talking about in terms of design concept and execution.
On that, at least they're trying. They have many obstacles to overcome, and I guess they have to start somewhere. I don't think that's the right place to start, but at least it's a start. I think GM has a better idea, with dropping brands. With Ford, they may have a nice looking car, but they are going to have to compete against themselves 7 times over to sell it. They own so many brands, and have so many vehicles in the same class, that they have to advertise 7 times for seven different models, to gain one customer. That leaves six cars sitting. You don't really see that with Toyota and Honda...

If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't ...

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07-08-2008 04:00 PM  9 years agoPost 7
derek533

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Edmond, Oklahoma

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Bart, I would love to own an X but it is only rated for 2000lb tow capacity and I have a small ski boat it won't even tow.

People seem to forget there will always be a need for larger vehicles for those of us who have families or have something they need to tow. Both the X and the Flex get reasonable gas mileage based on their size and weight. Especially considering mini vans (a misnomer nowadays) get around the same mileage. I would love to be able to drive a small vehicle that gets great gas mileage but that just isn't going to happen as I have a two year old and another one cooking right now.

Isn't the X based on the Volvo XC70 platform?

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07-08-2008 04:00 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Inspector Fuzz

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NLA

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Cars should not be designed in the US.
US cars have sucked for a long, long time.
If it doesn't say HONDA or TOYOTA on it, I won't drive it.

If GM and Ford are to continue to stay in business, they need to work on the design and styling of the UNDERSIDE and engine compartment of the vehicles. When I used to own them, those were the places I most frequently looked at.

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07-08-2008 04:08 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Bart B

rrKey Veteran

chicago illinois

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Bart, I would love to own an X but it is only rated for 2000lb tow capacity and I have a small ski boat it won't even tow.
That's when we roll out 'ol Cletus

Isn't the X based on the Volvo XC70 platform?
Not sure whose,but they did use a European platform.The awd is silky smooth.

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07-08-2008 04:10 PM  9 years agoPost 10
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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Fuzz, I drive a honda and it is definitely not "all that". The only reason I drive it is because it gets fantastic gas mileage. Its slow, covered in dents, ride is the worst of any car Iv driven, exhaust is already starting to rust away, and my interior panels wont stay on. You can bad mouth Ford all you want about quality but compare my Honda civic to a Volvo S40 and its easy to see which has better quality.

will wash your heli for a quarter

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07-08-2008 04:10 PM  9 years agoPost 11
derek533

rrApprentice

Edmond, Oklahoma

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Better be careful Fuzz, Toyota has been slipping as of late. Also, talk about conservative and boring designs (Toyota, not Honda). They just overtook the number one spot from GM but if their not careful, they'll lose it right back to them. Have you seen the new hideous Sequoia with that two tone dash? That is pure ugly and looks like something the big 3 used to be guilty of. I know it is a large, bloated SUV but if that is the direction Toyotoa is heading with their design team, they aren't going to be number one for long.

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07-08-2008 04:19 PM  9 years agoPost 12
kryptik

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South Carolina

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The Camry has been the top selling car in this country for years. Toyota sells more Camrys than Mazda sells Mazdas, or BMW sells BMWs, or Mercedes sells Mercedes. They did a complete redesign from a very boring style for the first time in 2007. It doesn't matter how boring it looks, if it is built well, and out performs its competition, it will sell. That is where Ford, GM, and Chrysler fail...

I also have a small family, my Camry and 4Runner do the job just fine. I fill them both up about once a month, and the 4Runner will tow anything I need. Are they boring? Maybe, but they do what I need them to...

If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't ...

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07-08-2008 04:31 PM  9 years agoPost 13
derek533

rrApprentice

Edmond, Oklahoma

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That's my point Kryptik. You drive a 4Runner because you have a small family. Most of us who live in fly over country (dumb, racist, rednecks as Lou likes to refer to us as), a small Civic or Corolla just isn't going to cut it. Sure, in an urban environment it may be great where short distances are the norm. But when you have to drive a few miles to get anywhere, a small vehicle just doesn't have the room we need to haul our kids, groceries let alone a stroller, diaper bag and whatnot. If Ford can make a similar sized vehicle that is as reliable as the 4Runner and has the looks to boot, isn't that a step in the right direction for Ford? At least then, Toyota will have some competition. Also, I've driven Escapes for company cars since they were introduced in 2002. I've yet to have one problem with them other than a hatch strut recall on one, and just normal maintenance.

I've owned a 2002 Accord Coupe, and an 03 Infiniti QX4. Both of those gave me no problems whatsoever but I've also owned domestics that were trouble free as well. I had a 96 T-Bird with the V8 that had over 90K on it when I traded it and it was problem free. I also had a 94 Ford Probe that was trouble free as well. Reliability wise, most cars on the road today are pretty reliable. I just don't buy into the Honda, Toyota and to a lesser degree, Nissan hype in terms of them being uber cars compared to the domestics and other makes. I also think Consumer Reports is for the most part, full of chit too.

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07-08-2008 04:35 PM  9 years agoPost 14
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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It doesn't matter how boring it looks, if it is built well, and out performs its competition, it will sell.
That is exactly why Toyota and Honda overtook everyone else. Their cars will rust out before the running gear fails.

SUV's days are numbered, that is for sure!

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07-08-2008 04:50 PM  9 years agoPost 15
kryptikrrNovice - South Carolina - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

compare my Honda civic to a Volvo S40 and its easy to see which has better quality.
The Volvo base price is $24k. Civic is $14. That's like comparing quality in a Chevy Impala to a Cadillac CTS. Of course it's going to be different, though it is essentially the same car.
If Ford can make a similar sized vehicle that is as reliable as the 4Runner and has the looks to boot, isn't that a step in the right direction for Ford?
I wasn't disagreeing with you. I said I think they should start in other areas, but a start is a start. If they sell off some of their brands, they wouldn't have so much work to do. That business model may have worked in the 90s, but there has been a bit of a paradigm shift in that industry's landscape, wouldn't you agree? To cling to yesterday's success is to ensure tomorrow's demise. Especially when things have changed as much as they have. Ford is not as bad as Chevy, but they still own quite a bit. Chevy appears to be quite the hog...

Here is the breakdown of who owns who...

If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't ...

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07-08-2008 05:02 PM  9 years agoPost 16
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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My dad was a big Ford fan, but Ford lost at least one customer and his progeny a few years back with my '88 F150. The brakes wore out prematurely and were a PAIN to work on. Then at 1 years old, the paint was coming off and turning the rags and water blue, until just the grey base primer was showing in a lot of spots. I tried to take care of that trucks finish too. The I-beam suspension would not stay in alignment. The only saving graces were the 4.9L motor and the Mazda 5-sp manual transmission.

The paint problem was a known defect or processing shortcut, and while claiming to warrant the product, I got the run-around by phone and letters until the time period just ran out and I lost my motivation to try anymore with their customer "service". I sold that thing gladly at a loss given the miles and upkeep I gave it.

I point this out because when Ford stopped trying, and Toyota and others were stepping up, they set their course for decades to come, and now they are probably a lost cause. I will not be prone to even consider another new or used Ford. They reap what they have sown.

And any new vehicle that's not designed to be a pavement burner should get at least 30mpg highway, and that doesn't come close to stretching technology of your basic IC piston engine.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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07-08-2008 05:04 PM  9 years agoPost 17
derek533

rrApprentice

Edmond, Oklahoma

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Umdpru, I disagree to a certain extent. With an example family of 5 consisting of two adults, a five year old, a two year old, and a newborn, where are you going to put them in a Camry. With today's requirements of all children being in safety seats (an obvious good thing mind you), by the time you have two of those in the back seat, there is literally not enough room to put a third in a Camry or any backseat for that matter. So that means you either need a third row, or to leave someone behind. As most of us don't want to be visited by DHS, we need a third row. That leaves us with minivans, SUV's and CUV's. The large SUV's (Expedition, Tahoe, Sequoia) will always have their place because in addition to people room, they have large tow capacities. I think it's the middle sized traditional body on frame SUV's that are going to be going by the wayside as their fuel economy is not much better, if at all than their larger counterparts. So now we have two options other than large SUV's which one obviously doesn't need if they don't have anything besides people to move. That leaves us with wagons, crossovers and minivans. Minivans aren't so "mini" anymore and their fuel economy is no better than most crossovers. So with that in mind, crossovers are seeing a huge gain in popularity as they offer a viable alternative to minivans without compromising fuel economy. Wagons OTOH, while making a comeback, don't have the sales numbers yet to justify R&D on new designs when crossovers do pretty much the same thing and give people higher feeling driving down the road.

Also, let's not forget safety either. Sure, a small car may have a 5 star crash rating but if you read carefully, that 5 star rating is only when involved in accidents with vehicles of similar size. Common sense tells us that the more material we have around us, the better off we are. I'm not about to throw my family into a tuna can and expect them to be able to walk away from a moderate crash. With a crossover, minivan or wagon, at least they'll have a fighting chance. Especially if they are in a wreck with a smaller vehicle. That may sound selfish and it probably is, but no one else is going to look after my family so I have to.

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07-08-2008 05:11 PM  9 years agoPost 18
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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Umdpru, I disagree to a certain extent. With an example family of 5 consisting of two adults, a five year old, a two year old, and a newborn, where are you going to put them in a Camry.
You are aiming your guns at the wrong person...
Also, let's not forget safety either. Sure, a small car may have a 5 star crash rating but if you read carefully, that 5 star rating is only when involved in accidents with vehicles of similar size.
This argument is bunk. It's a viscous cycle. If everyone has 'smaller' vehicles then no one would have to worry about being involved in a crash with a 'larger' vehicle.

The fact that your car is larger than mine in a crash doesn't necessarily mean you are safe either. SUV's love to roll over...

I can't tell you how many trucks and SUV's I see on the road in the AM and PM during my commute carrying one sole occupant to work and back.

Shoot, there is even a guy here where I work who drives an F-350 Harley Davidson edition diesel truck and he commutes 45 miles one way with the damned thing...

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07-08-2008 05:34 PM  9 years agoPost 19
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

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Ford lost me...I had two Mustangs and they both were not mechanically sound.

I will by an import for my next car...Unless an American company really does some major changes...American cars are more expensive and not as sound right now.

Fool me once....But this is the second time and I blame myself. There will not be a third mistake.

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07-08-2008 05:46 PM  9 years agoPost 20
Bart B

rrKey Veteran

chicago illinois

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I think the Saturn's are looking pretty good.
That's a nice tree.Looks like everyone's connected in one way or another.
btw,I just did my first brake job on my F-350 pull dog,got 93k on the original brakes.Full floating axles all around what a pita.
I thought that was a good deal though.

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