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T-REX 450 › Heli Artist 4-Blade head
07-07-2008 08:48 PM  9 years agoPost 1
sparkymanrrApprentice - uk - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

T-REX 450 Heli Artist 4-Blade Head

Hi,

Anybody have any experience, good or bad, with the Heli Artist 4-Blade Head.

I know there were issues with The Lightning Heli heads a while ago - not sure if these have been resolved, but I see that Flying Hobby are stocking the Heli-Artist heads now and was wondering if there is anybody out there using this HA head yet ?

Thanks

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07-08-2008 01:18 AM  9 years agoPost 2
BrunoBL

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Pomerode, SC, Brazil -26.71, -49.17

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No info on the head, sorry.

But will you use one of those electronic stability systems for flybarless heads? Also, what blade size will you use?

Just curious on your planned setup, I think a 4-blade head is a great idea for a scale fuse.


...Bruno.
Spectra G on Avgas 100LL, Jewel generator
T-Rex450SE V2
DX7

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07-10-2008 07:47 AM  9 years agoPost 3
sparkyman

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uk

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Hi,

I'm not planning to use any extra electronics....unless I really have to !

Seems there are many now flying multi-blade 450's without any extra mixing. I'll be using standard 325mm blades unless I find something more scale.

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07-11-2008 02:34 AM  9 years agoPost 4
BrunoBL

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Pomerode, SC, Brazil -26.71, -49.17

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Thanks for the info Sparkyman,

Good luck with the project & please post some pictures when available.


...Bruno.
Spectra G on Avgas 100LL, Jewel generator
T-Rex450SE V2
DX7

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07-11-2008 05:37 AM  9 years agoPost 5
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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I'll be using standard 325mm blades unless I find something more scale.
Yeah, many of us would love a more scale sized (and weighted) blade options for these multi 450's.

I did not realize that Heli Artist had their own rotor heads. These things are growing in popularity for sure.

nick

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07-11-2008 06:52 AM  9 years agoPost 6
red_sash

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Canberra, Australia

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More info

I was not aware Heliartist had released their heads. I thought this was HAC brand, which is another company which also produces mainly fuselages/canopies also found at Flying Hobby. From what I know the HAC fuselages/canopies are made by a Chinese company Wind of Wings (or something like that).

Here's some links to other HAC products.

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/adv...&sort=2a&page=2

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=2577

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=2575

Basically, I probably know squat, so perhaps somebody can confirm for me.

Regards

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07-11-2008 08:39 AM  9 years agoPost 7
sparkyman

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uk

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I may have assumed HAC was an abbreviation of Heli Artist Company or Heli ARtist Canopy, as they show the exact same heads on their WWW as "coming soon" products. They also show these "HAC" heads on pictures of their 450 size fuslages like the Hughes 500 variants.

Maybe HAC is a newly formed "machining" division of Heli Artist....or it may indeed be a totally unconnected company in it's own right ???

Either way, these new heads offer an alternative to the Lightning Heli & DT products....I think I may just try one and maybe let you all know how well produced (or not) they are

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07-11-2008 02:53 PM  9 years agoPost 8
sparkyman

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uk

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Ok...I decided to bite the bullet & buy one of the HAC 5-Blade heads

Should be here by this time next week, so I'll try and give you all a review on build quality and take a few close up of the components...

..watch this space !

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07-11-2008 03:23 PM  9 years agoPost 9
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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do these multiblabde heads require any special electronics to fly? or just a different mix?
I heard in the past multirotor systems required electronics to work.

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07-11-2008 11:09 PM  9 years agoPost 10
KarbonBird

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Australia

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I would be interested to know how much current that a 4 blader draws than the stock 2 blade version. I am looking at using a 3 blader on a T-Rex 450 SE V2 AP ship as it looks like it provides a smoother platform. Looking at the FH ones available they don't seems to have a 3 blader available so the next option is 4 blades. I think a big consideration would be the cost of actually buying the blades too - for 5 blades would you actually have to buy 3 x pairs. Pushes up the price a bit!

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07-14-2008 08:58 AM  9 years agoPost 11
sparkyman

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uk

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USNAviationjay

These smaller (450) multi-blades can be flown without any additinal mixers, providing a few basics are adhered to. These seem to be

1) Run a much slower head speed
2) Use heaviest blades you can
3) Add additional tip weight to the blades to move the blade CoG further out in the disk.
4) Ensure heli has overall forward CoG

I have yet to fly a multi, I'm some weeks off maiden flight yet, but
there are quite a few people here who are flying them very successfully - there are a few posts, heres the one I've been following with interest;

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t410367p1/

Karbon bird

I'm running a Jetispin ESC (on a Dragonus) which has data logging & retrieval via a Spinbox. I'm currently logging my flights, trying to get the most efficient set-up (longest flight times). My scale project will also have Dragonus mechanics fitted with the HAC 5-Blade head - i'll be running the dragonus with the 5-Blade in the very near future, so i'll be able to give you an indication of the differences between the 2 & 5 blade heads.

Hope this helps

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07-14-2008 07:41 PM  9 years agoPost 12
sparkyman

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uk

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...The HAC 5-Blade arrived today - only 2 days from HK to UK !

First impressions were very favourable, although the swash was only a 120Deg 3 Ball item, not the Dual 90/120Deg 6-ball described in the product spec on the WWW - I asked for confirmation before I purchased and was told it was a 90/120 swash - even had a picture of another similar head showing a 90/120 swash.......so went ahead and bought on that basis. I've contacted Flying Hobby about this and asked for a 6-ball Dual 90/120Deg swash as per the specification and email confirmations.

Machined parts were very good, although they had received a certain amount of "polishing" and some machining marks were still evident. There were also some "stock" marks, inperfections in the stock material rather than machining marks, but nothing too major - won't be able to polish them out though as some are just too deep in places.

The swashplate was free in rotation, but very rough in travel - small servos are going to struggle & die moving this, rough & notchy - seems to catch a lot during repeated up & down travel by hand, so I popped off the pitch links to see if I could find the problem.

The spherical bearing seemed to be biting onto the mainshaft at random in different places, never consistent. I couldn't see any marks on the mainshaft, but the entry/exits to the spherical bearing had very sharp edges - I may have to grind some small chamfers here to eliminate these edges biting.

The balls on the swash were inconsistent - some were mirror smooth, some were covered in machining marks. As a result, some pitch link balls were free, some were tight & rough. Even if the ball links were reemed a little, I don't think it would eliminate the roughness. I'll have to fit a new set of quality balls here.

The worst parts were the blade grip bearings - out of 5 blades, only one had smooth, freely rotating bearings. The other four were very rough, one was virtually seized and one had a very bad (almost impassible) tight spot in one place. Again, I'll have to strip the grips down & investigate, but I've already committed myself to replacing all the bearings with quality items to get things right.

The swash plate driver was a nice little surprise - well made (over polished in one place resulting in a noticble "dip" made by a small polishing wheel) - but slop free and free to operate, without binding or over-centre locking, over a very wide range - more than sufficient for what will be required during operation - think this part will remain untouched, only a reem of the ball link if required to suit the new balls.

Overall, for $150 delivered, I'm quite pleased despite the extra work & expenditure thats required to get it right (I haven't worked out how much this will cost yet). Overall it's well made, a little TLC & QC from the factory would have made a huge difference, but as this price I can't really complain- the basics elements are here and are generally good, just a bit of finishing required to make it nice.

If anybody's interested, I'll try and get some pictures posted during the next few days - let me know.

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07-15-2008 04:07 AM  9 years agoPost 13
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Hmmmm..HAC sure sounds like Lightning Heli to me. I have the penta hub for my 450. Haven't installed it yet, but plan too. The feedback on the Lightning Heli ones (early) surely reflect your comments.

JC

I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....

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07-15-2008 10:46 AM  9 years agoPost 14
sparkyman

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uk

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True...seems both the HAC & LH heads suffer from similar problems, but I think it's to be expected at this price - if they were 100% the prices would be getting close to the DT heads ?

Just for interest, your LH Penta - does it have a 6 ball swash ?

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07-15-2008 08:12 PM  9 years agoPost 15
sparkyman

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uk

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Well, I stripped down the head tonight to take a closer look at the rough blade grips......and found a ton of swarf everywhere;

crushed between the grip bolt & the thrust bearing, crushed between the radial bearing and the grip spacer, caught up in the bolt thread and the spacer, and worst of all in the hub itself - very dirty, contaminated with all sorts of oil & rubbish, grit, swarf. I think the hub had been polished quite heavily, then assembled before having all 15 holes cleaned out (1 bolt hole and 2 set screw holes per blade hub).

The bearings themselves actually seem OK - I think all the roughness was just down to the dirt & swarf - the sealed bearings may have survived assembly OK.

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07-16-2008 10:08 PM  9 years agoPost 16
sparkyman

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uk

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Feel this is turning into a blog now, but what i'm finding may be of interest to some of you..

I got around to removing the bearings tonight, 3 grips were straight forward, one or 2 gentle taps with a drift and out popped both bearings - 2 grips were a lot more difficult - these were the 2 grips that were the roughest on the received head, one with a tight spot, the other was virtually seized solid.

The bearings that came out of these 2 were rusty & choked with retaining fluid (loctite) - little wonder they were bad.

Some of the other bearings were OK, but some were rusty & some were notchy. Out of 10 bearings I think I have 3 good ones that I would use again...........but I won't !

Interestingly, both grip bearings were radial shielded types (no 3 part thrust ?). A 4x9x4 Main and a 4x9x2.5, acting as the thrust.

After removing the bearings, I decided to clean out the Grips & hub and remove all the crap I discovered the night before - make your own minds up about this - see the photos below.

After looking at the completely disassembled head, I decided that I may as well go ahead and anodised everything and attempt to get them looking as scale as possible, maybe black or a dark Titanium grey, so spent a few hours polishing. Decided to leave the swash driver arms as they are, for fear of damaging the upper arm housing trying to remove the two tiny bearings - might cut it back a little and "satin" it....or paint it - not sure yet?

Anyway - will keep you posted over the coming weeks as & when I make progress

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07-05-2009 04:11 PM  8 years agoPost 17
sparkyman

rrApprentice

uk

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HAC 5-Blade head setup

....been almost a year since I started this thread & finally got back to this 450 scale project

After stripping down the head, I sent the parts away for anodising - the result was very nice, adding a whole new degree of scale realism. I have some pictures, which i'll post later, so you can see the results.

I renewed all the grip bearings, albeit with Chinese manufactured items, but the quality seems to be reasonable and far better than the bearings I removed during stripdown. The re-assembled head is so smooth now - a world apart from the original item. I've also replaced the balls with Dragonus items - another big improvement.

Fitting the head & setting up revealed problems achieving a modest pitch range - the goal was 0-10 deg, but I couldn't get any positive pitch at all. Pitch links would need to be about 10mm longer than standard to get the range I need. I did a brief search for longer links but couldn't find anything, so I opted to change the servo link rods for longer items.

Initially tried the 32/33mm rods from the Trex450 set(HS1282).....these gave me the positive pitch I needed (and more), but I had to start moving the servo arms far away from perpendicular at mid stick (6 degs). I also had to limit the swash travel to an extent where I had very limited servo throw & a major loss of resolution. The resulting pitch curve, to give me 0-10 deg throw, was extremely shallow at about 0-30% low to high stick.

Running back over the set-up, I was having trouble with repeatability of servo to stick position, especially around the hovering sector of the curve..........I'm going to need some shorter servo links, so the next step is to try the 29mm links in the HS1034 kit. I hoping this, together with moving the balls inward on the servo arms, will give me the pitch range together with better stick to servo resolution.

I've read now that the swash plate driver, on the HAC 5-Blade head, is not strong enough to cope with the torque.........anybody have any experience with this issue ??

Thanks

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07-06-2009 02:04 AM  8 years agoPost 18
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Spark,

I bought a second spare LH penta hub that was missing the follwer assembly, I made a replacement from the Align washout assembly. Haven't tried it out yet but it seems to as good in feel as the stock one.

JC

I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....

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07-06-2009 04:38 PM  8 years agoPost 19
sparkyman

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uk

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Hi J,

Thanks for the input.....I guess this is a metal washout base that you're using (as opposed to plastic)? I'll have to check out the Trex450 spares again to find the parts I need to do this mod. Do you have any pictures of your mod ?

Did you ever use the original swashplate driver? If so, did it self-destruct within minutes of first spool up.....did it last for a good number of flights..... or did you just change to the Align parts as a "safeguard" ?

I must admit that I'm now concerned about spooling up for the first time with the standard driver, just in case it fails and causes damage to other parts - shame becuase it looks the part (in terms of relevant size).

Thanks for your help with this.

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07-06-2009 07:48 PM  8 years agoPost 20
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Spark,

Here are my pictures of my mod/repair to the head that didn't have a follower.

I included ones with the stock unit installed. In retrospect, the same unit made for the HDX-450 just might work better, I may end up using it instead. However, Ihaven't installed either head, so I don't know (other than what I have read others using this), how well it works as a replacement.

Hope this helps,

JC

I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....

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