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HelicopterMain Discussion › Your local Nitro fuel prices
07-09-2008 12:52 AM  9 years agoPost 121
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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w.pasman - yeah hydrogen is explosive but so can batteries be and anything else that is used for storage of energy. What I like about using hydrogen as the energy storage medium is that it's simply requires a container, unlike batteries which are a complex combination of 'volatile ingredients' and not very 'green' to manufacture. Liquid fuels such as petroleum, methanol etc although a little easier to store than hydrogen are relatively complex and are not so green when combusticated. A liquid fuel leak is tricky to clean up as is a leaky battery, but hydrogen very rapidly dispurse into the air.
It's interesting how the Zeppelin disaster gave hydrogen such a bad name, when infact the ignition problem was caused by electrostatic discharge across the outer pannels which were doped in a material similar to rocket fuel. An accident waiting to happen.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-09-2008 12:57 AM  9 years agoPost 122
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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Cool Power Heli 20% $19.99 at Archie's Hobbies n Helis, Pinellas Park, FL.

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07-09-2008 01:42 AM  9 years agoPost 123
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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It's interesting how the Zeppelin disaster gave hydrogen such a bad name, when infact the ignition problem was caused by electrostatic discharge across the outer pannels which were doped in a material similar to rocket fuel. An accident waiting to happen.
clever germans!

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07-09-2008 08:00 AM  9 years agoPost 124
JKMRS

rrNovice

Czech Republic

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hydrogen storage

It takes a bit more than "a simple container" to store effficiently hydrogen...

more info : http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/...en/overview.php

Hopefuly OS will make an hydrogen power solution before the gallon of 30% reaches 100$

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07-09-2008 08:07 AM  9 years agoPost 125
puneetp

rrApprentice

Bangalore, India

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Currently RC fuel is not readily available here so most flyers mix their own fuel

here is what the composition is like :

Methanol + NitroMethane( 20 % by vol ) + Castor Oil (20% by vol )

Cost :
Methaonl : 2.5 USD a liter or 10USD a gallon ( approx )
Nitro Methane : 40 USD a liter or 160USD a gallon ( approx )
Castor Oil : 3 USD a liter or 12USD a gallon ( approx )

I gallon of fuel cost us approximately
6USD + 40USD + 3USD = 49USD per gallon or 13USD per liter

Machine over Gravity

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07-09-2008 02:35 PM  9 years agoPost 126
OldSkoolXcell60

rrNovice

Melbourne, FL, USA

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It's readily available here... but even I am returning to "home brewing" as I did years ago.

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07-09-2008 03:37 PM  9 years agoPost 127
K-ROK

rrApprentice

REDBANK NJ USA

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Hey Eury. You shouldn't go around saying lhs are ripping people off if they are charging more than 2 to 3 dollars extra for 30 % fuel. Fuel prices went up alot more than 2 dollars a gallon depending on who you get it from and where you are located.Shipping is alot cheaper for the stores located closer to the points of origin and therefore they may not have to raise prices as much. Some stores could even pick it up themselves saving even further.How much profit is a store allowed to make before they are ripping you off because I am gonna tell you most stores when they sell fuel for 22 to 24 dollars a gallon are only making 3 to 6 dollars a gallon before the prices went up. I think you shouldnt go around making claims like that unless you know all the facts.

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07-09-2008 05:26 PM  9 years agoPost 128
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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I feel HORRIBLE for hurting the feelings of all those poor hobby shop owners out there.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-09-2008 07:45 PM  9 years agoPost 129
K-ROK

rrApprentice

REDBANK NJ USA

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Figure you would get a dumb*** reply like that from you.

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07-09-2008 08:20 PM  9 years agoPost 130
E J Atchison

rrApprentice

Winsted, CT USA

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Shippers would love for all LHS to close. Do you have any idea of how much Hazmat charges are per gallon? I think having a LHS is an asset (although many seem to be operated more as a hobby than a business ie: they ONLY carry what the owner is interested in).

Bet most of us on RR would have shops focused on Helis. What happens when the other 95% of the non flying public goes in?

I'll admit I'm not a great pilot, but I can hover with the best of them.

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07-09-2008 11:41 PM  9 years agoPost 131
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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You guys are just getting closer to what we have had to do for a long time down here. At some stage you may not have the luxury of nicely mixed "gallons" of anti corrosive anti foaming fuel but mix it yourself from Methanol, Nitro and oil.

Down here we deal in Litres. You deal in gallons untill splitting it up and then talk in terms of quarts or litres? one gallon is 3.85 litres.....that would cost me about $10.68 nz a litre (8.22 USD) or $31.64 USD a gallon for 30% nitro and 18% cool power blue.

In some LHS the fuel down here at 30% is anywhere from $50 to $85 USD a gallon so there is a wide variance in prices and they do nothing more than me except ship it. Sure there is time taken to mix and the cost of the container but hello........thats why most of us get together to buy the ingredients in bulk and mix ourselves. I'd have to agree with EURY in SOME cases the LHS will gouge if they get the chance. Others will try to limit the rises AMAP and may even absorb some of the costs of transport and production.

Up until now your fuel has been CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and now you are pretty much paying what we have been paying for years by mixing our own. Perhaps you are getting closer to that.....that would certainly make the hobby stores think twice about price gouging (on second hand strike that....it doesn't make a damn worth of difference down here)

BTW.....the fuel has always worked fine.

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07-11-2008 01:58 AM  9 years agoPost 132
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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Figure you would get a dumb*** reply like that from you.
My apologies sir, your reply was so ridiculous that I didn't feel the need to type a long one. Just so you don't feel slighted, here's a long one.
Hey Eury. You shouldn't go around saying lhs are ripping people off if they are charging more than 2 to 3 dollars extra for 30 % fuel. Fuel prices went up alot more than 2 dollars a gallon depending on who you get it from and where you are located.Shipping is alot cheaper for the stores located closer to the points of origin and therefore they may not have to raise prices as much. Some stores could even pick it up themselves saving even further.How much profit is a store allowed to make before they are ripping you off because I am gonna tell you most stores when they sell fuel for 22 to 24 dollars a gallon are only making 3 to 6 dollars a gallon before the prices went up. I think you shouldnt go around making claims like that unless you know all the facts.
I related what my LHS told me regarding how much the fuel prices had gone up. My LHS is making money on fuel, but they have chosen to only raise their prices by how much the supplier raised it to them. They are not a charity, they have just chosen not to stick it to the customer. If you have raised your prices by $10, $15, $20 or more, either you are getting ripped off, or you are doing it to the customer. Either way, it's wrong and should be corrected.

If your store is making $3 to $6 on a $24 gallon of fuel, that's somewhere around 13% on the low side and 33% on the high side (That math is off the top of my head after a long day, but it's close). I've got news for you, that's a pretty high markup on the low, and a great markup on the high side. The computer store I used to run averaged 10% profits, most of the computers themselves went for 7%. I'd be driving a Porsche right now if I had 13%-33% markups on things. And that's just the fuel. You own or at least work in a hobby shop (from your previous posts), you know what the markups are just as well as I do, and your saying that you're only making 13-33% on a jug of fuel is terrifying.

Your saying that it's also dependent on how far away from the supplier is also completely invalid. If the store was 500 miles away from the supplier yesterday, it's still 500 miles away today. Yes, transit costs have gone up, but they have not gone up to the degree that many are reporting in this thread. What we are seeing is profiteering, plain and simple.

It's my job (and yours, and everyone else's) as a consumer to try to get the most goods and services for the least money. It's the job of the retailer to get the most money while giving the least goods. We meet somewhere in the middle. If an LHS is whining about how they don't make enough money on something, they should raise their prices, get more customers, or change their business. Don't complain to me because I don't think that people should be taking it up the behind on fuel prices. Your comment "They only make $3-$6 on a gallon" is stupid. How much should a shop make on that jug that cost them $18-$21 (by your numbers)? $20? $40? If you think that, I'd LOVE to have you as my customer, because you clearly don't see the value of a dollar and don't mind over paying for products.

I pay a premium to do business at my LHS because I value their service and convenience. They have good prices on fuel, and while their prices on kits, parts, electronics etc are 5 - 15% percent higher than mail order, it's worth it for me to support a local company. That's where the price/goods/service curve meets for me. If they started engaging in the robbery reported here, I would no longer shop there.

And finally, You post as if I wrote an article on the cover of the NY Times. I'm a guy typing on a computer on an internet forum. It is my opinion that the shops that are jacking prices way up are screwing their customers. If it's not yours, great. You have just as much clout as I do on this matter. When you write a diatribe about the poor hobby shop owner who has to raise their prices, I'm going to say that I don't care. There is a difference between fair increases and asking your customers to bend over in what is often a captive market, and I'm going to call it like I see it. You writing back and insulting me when I did nothing of the kind to you is uncalled for. I'd think from your original post (as misguided and wrong as it was) that you'd be capable of coming up with something better than that.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-11-2008 02:44 AM  9 years agoPost 133
flustercluck

rrVeteran

Newnan Ga (Just S.​of ATL)

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Yeee-Haw!!!

Get 'em, Nick!!! Well said, bro.

Something's up (excuse the pun) w/ nitro prices. I know this due to the wildly varying prices at various LHS's in the ATL market.

Either: 1) fuel distributors are charging different prices to different LHS's (restraint of trade?); or 2) LHS's are buying about the same, but using this as an opportunity to greatly increase profits.

Regardless: you vote with your feet. I stopped doing business with my LHS after many years, because he jacked the price up on CP15%, OVERNIGHT, on CURRENT INVENTORY, by like $7/gal. He said "my costs are up".

OK, fine. He can charge whatever he wants. It's his business. So I voted with my feet and sourced another ATL hobby shop who HAS NOT raised prices a NICKEL (we're talking CP15) throughout all this nonsense. He's 45 min away, vs 10 min away for my original guy.

Now, iso going local and buying a single gal or two at some ripoff/gouging price, I drive the 45 min and pick up a couple cases for $55 each.

So you tell ME what's going on here. Seems obvious. As for yours truly, I'll drag my b*lls across broken glass and a bed of nails to support an honest retailer who supports the hobby, and not some profiteer looking to screw a longtime customer.

But ya know what? if they can get $100 a gal, God bless 'em. Just wont be my $$$ going in their register.

ciao

Jeff

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07-11-2008 02:55 AM  9 years agoPost 134
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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OK, fine. He can charge whatever he wants. It's his business. So I voted with my feet and sourced another ATL hobby shop who HAS NOT raised prices a NICKEL (we're talking CP15) throughout all this nonsense. He's 45 min away, vs 10 min away for my original guy.
Exactly the right thing to do. Unfortunately, this is a captive market in a lot of areas. I have the choice of 2 shops, there in ATL, you've got a number of choices as well. However, the guy who only has one shop within 100 miles of him is the one who is really hurt by this. It's those guys who really need to know that prices have not gone up as much as is being reported, because there is a chance that if they call the LHS on the ripoff, it can be stopped. This is the kind of thing that can get people to give up the hobby.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-11-2008 03:59 AM  9 years agoPost 135
flustercluck

rrVeteran

Newnan Ga (Just S.​of ATL)

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Great point. I was a bit myopic in my outlook.

Smaller mkts where there's no real retail choices really get hammered. What really bites is shipping: nobody will ship it, due to the flippin hazmat fees. What's funny (read: strange) is that these shops can RECEIVE it all day long; they just can't RE-SHIP the same identical thing. How about that, partner??

You can order ANYTHING you want from Tower, Horizon, Great Planes, et. al., but the one thing you NEED, but CAN'T ORDER, is nitro.

Can anyone with more than two brain cells see an LHS profit opportunity here?? Ya gettin' it now, Einstein???

The prohibition on shipping in turn constrains trade, which reduces competition and thus pushes up prices. Unless you brew your own, you're at the total mercy (or lack of it) of your LHS. As we have seen, not all LHS's have the same view on profit margins and continuing to dance with the ones who brought 'em to the party.

We pilots should form a buying cartel. Call it ONBHP- Organization of Nitro-Buying Heli Pilots.

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07-11-2008 01:52 PM  9 years agoPost 136
Mutt

rrKey Veteran

M ca usa

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Comes down to one word greed. Plain and simple greed. no matter what end it is on. our lhs's here are greedy they have raised prices anywheres from 20 to 30 per gallon yet I can go over the hill and get it for a 5 dollar increase per gallon.

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07-11-2008 03:45 PM  9 years agoPost 137
E J Atchison

rrApprentice

Winsted, CT USA

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Why the big fuss now. There is not any 30% being produced anymore so no one will be making a profit on it. None on the shops in this area have any left, and don't expect to see any more till fall (if at all). When the nitro is produced again the commercial fertilizer manufacturers will probably get first dibs, and the other industries such as dry cleaners who also use gallons in their cleaning solutions (bet your home town has more dry cleaners then hobby shops).
Just last night I had a lengthy conversation with a friend involved in drag racing (a MUCH larger business and user of Nitro than RC). He stated the cost of the nitro they use has increased by 10X. (I had already heard this from a couple racers I know who have confirmed this) NHRA involves many times more people (read that SPENDERS) than RC, suppose they might get nitro before us as well?

BTW I also own a business that retails apx 70K per month, my rent and utilities exceed 7K monthly. If I had to survive on 10% margin (not profit) No one that worked for me would get paid. Anyone looking to work for those terms.

When a company speaks of their PROFIT it is the amount left after expenses. A company with 7% after expenses is doing well in todays economy. I can assure you their MARGIN is much higher. Most people wouldn't understand this because they are part of the business expense (employee). The people who manufacture our nitro fuels have a MARGIN greater than 10% why shouldn't the guy dealing face to face and spending time with the end user. BTW how come no one is complaining about the (possibly greedy) manufactures? They marked up the fuel before it even got to the retailer.
Ask your local gas station owner how wholesale prices have CUT their profits yet they take the heat from the consumer.
I also agree if your local shop has added 20 bucks a gallon to 15% they are taking advantage of the situation.

FYI I spent years consulting with retail business all over the US so I speak from the experiences of literally hundreds of retailers.

Ok MBA's jump on in! I'm gonna fly the 30% I hoarded a couple months ago

E J Atchison

I'll admit I'm not a great pilot, but I can hover with the best of them.

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07-11-2008 06:08 PM  9 years agoPost 138
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

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There is not any 30% being produced anymore so no one will be making a profit on it.
False. Wildcat has publicly stated here more than once that they are still making 30%, and have no plans to cease doing so.

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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07-11-2008 06:41 PM  9 years agoPost 139
ThreeDPilot

rrNovice

Feldkirch/Vorarlberg​/Austria

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In Austria I pay 22-23€ 17%nitro one gallon, that are approx. 34 dollars.

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07-11-2008 08:01 PM  9 years agoPost 140
E J Atchison

rrApprentice

Winsted, CT USA

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Tim, Jerry did say that both Great Planes and Horizon had stock. They currently do NOT. Check for yourself. I've dealt with Jerry before he is a stand up guy, and I have a good relationship with him, so I'm not wanting anyone to think I'm beating up on him. (FYI I verified my information prior to posting.) BTW GP and Horizon have not had 30% since prior to his post last week. Well actually Horizon had a few cases in the West warehouse according to the person I spoke with. I'm sure that was gone by the end of the day. Just thought people should be aware of what I've found the inventory to be, maybe you have other information. Please share we could all use more fuel.

Thanks,
E J Atchison

Hey BTW what's wrong with electrics, I fly them as well!

I'll admit I'm not a great pilot, but I can hover with the best of them.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Your local Nitro fuel prices
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