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HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Anyone got a Vario EC135???
07-13-2008 10:16 AM  9 years agoPost 41
MattJen

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UK

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but I would take a large bet that there are a heck of a lot more stock ones working perfectly satisfactorily, which of course, you never hear about

And that was the most frustrating part.

i had seen some work very well, i guess i was one of the unlucky ones...

i hope you guys cure the authority

i look foward to reading more

Matt

All The Best

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07-13-2008 10:38 AM  9 years agoPost 42
Héli Suisse

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Geneva Switzerland

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Hi Matt,

your'not the only one. I've an EC 135 Vario with a JetCat. I originally flew the heli as it stands from the box. I was using the original 18 teeth (modulus 0.8!) and the speed-up gear at the rear of the turbine mechanics. Unpainted and without doors nor windows I was able to keep the heading stable, at the expense of a significant left rudder deflection (CCW head 4 blades) I could even slowly turn to the left. After painting and fitting all the required accessories, keeping the heading steady was an other story! I needed a full left rudder to prevent the heli from drifting toward a right yaw rotation. I'm using a strong 12 kg servo and by applying full deflection I was severely stressing the tail control rod that binded and broke apart in flight, resulting in a suddend high rate unexpected piro... I landed hard but suffered minor damages.

After that event I went to two majors modifications: changing the gear ratio in the tail gear box to get a 1.1:1 ratio using the 22/20 teeth combination (Vario and Robbe gears); upgrading to the VOG system. Both combination have proven to be a Copernician revolution. The tail servo now remains well centered to keep heading steady, I don't need to apply full left rudder, and the tail authority is much stronger allowing me to hover and translate laterally against a 20km/h without troubles.

Indeed the changes from the original gasser EC 135 to a turbine implies much more weight, including the 3-4 liters = 2.4-3.2 kg fuel weight. More weight=more lift to keep steady hover=more drag=more torque to counterbalance at the tail.

The VOG blades are presenting a significantly more pronounced camber in comparison to the Vario and they are very light (~1 g). No wonder they are working better than the rather flat cambered Vario, no matter in plastic or carbon!

Now after a lot of trials and errors I can start enjoying flying the EC 135 which is a nice machine to fly with.

Good luck

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07-13-2008 05:21 PM  9 years agoPost 43
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Héli Suisse, went similar route to you but my speed up gearing was 22 to 18
Peter R

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07-13-2008 11:20 PM  9 years agoPost 44
Héli Suisse

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Geneva Switzerland

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Hi Peter,

Ouah! That makes a 1.222:1 ratio, you should be ranging near 10500 rpm! No problems with the ball bearings? I'm not that sure the Vario are thrust bearings, they look like having a ring for stronger setting only as described in the building and operating manual.

How did you managed to mate the two gears with different modulus (0.8 for the 18 teeth and 0.7 for the 22 teeth)?

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07-13-2008 11:29 PM  9 years agoPost 45
MattJen

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I'm not that sure the Vario are thrust bearings,

they are not thrust raced, i found mine locked up under severe load

Matt

All The Best

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07-13-2008 11:50 PM  9 years agoPost 46
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Héli Suisse, Can not remember exactly but the fenestrom was spinning at over 12000 rpm, the gears meshed no problem, took a little wear to lap them in other than that they are still in the 135
Peter Wales built a test rig and ran a vario fenestrom at over 140000 rpm, giving it max loads in both directions, he would be best on how he did it
Peter R

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07-14-2008 02:28 AM  9 years agoPost 47
rotormast

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Carrollton, Texas

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Stay away from the Vario gyro system. Crashed my helicopter with it. There much better systems out there.

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07-14-2008 05:35 AM  9 years agoPost 48
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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Peter R, I assume you mean 14,000? But still, in either case, that's very impressive.

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07-14-2008 07:20 AM  9 years agoPost 49
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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14,000

Nick, thanks for the correction, 14,000 is what I ment
Peter R

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07-14-2008 09:50 AM  9 years agoPost 50
MattJen

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UK

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One thing this thread has highlighted,

is that the fenestron is hit and miss, it has to be acknowledged as Pete wales said there are some out there using the bog standard set up and having no problems at all and are really happy with thier machines...

But it also has to be acknowledged that there are a quite a few of us who have had to do maega upgrades, rebuilds, etc to get the vario EC135 to work,

The Hirobo EC135 works fine, with no problems at all, and fenestron speed of up to 12500rpm.

All The Best

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07-14-2008 11:27 AM  9 years agoPost 51
dazzaster

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right next door to hell

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you can buy the vario mechanics without the fenestrom and then buy the vog version so you arent left with the vario fenestrom sitting on you shelf collecting dust

A.K.A 509

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07-14-2008 12:03 PM  9 years agoPost 52
Héli Suisse

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Geneva Switzerland

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Yes indeed but you still have to buy the gear box with the 6 mm shaft and the tail pitch lever including the ball-race slider and link to control pitch. Those pricey parts are NOT included in the VOG device which is intended to replace the Vario fenestron for those who already have one and are much disappointed with

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07-14-2008 12:17 PM  9 years agoPost 53
dazzaster

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right next door to hell

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if you want the best sometimes you have to pay for it

A.K.A 509

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07-14-2008 12:24 PM  9 years agoPost 54
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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still have to do mega re building to get it to work...

Matt, it is not a mega rebuild to exchange one fenestrom type unit for another, a nuts and bolt job
You are confusing kits and mechanics, the fenestrom come with the mechanics not the kit
Some of us like the challenge of getting some thing to work well, and have the time and inclination to do it
I flew a petrol EC135 at the Red Lodge fly in, it turned to the left like a dream but in the other direction a real pain, the problem was the head phasing was out, when this was corrected it flew both directions faultlessly, So maybe we should have been looking more closly at the blade phasing?
Peter R

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07-14-2008 12:34 PM  9 years agoPost 55
MattJen

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UK

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THIS WAS YOUR COMMENTS ON MY OTHER THREAD
New Fenestrom

Matt, it has been a long hard struggle to get the correct authority to the tail with the 135,
I have given up on the Vario supplied drive system and after trying different combinations of drives and speed up gearing, fitted the French 10 blade Fenestrom supplied by Starwood
I have also mounted the servo to the tail tube within the Fenestrom tunnel, this allows me to fit the shortest control rod,and make adjustments to the rod,and servo, this has had no ill effects on the ability of the heli to spin left ( against torque) when ever I want it to, Here are some static photos of the EC135, I have a 30 min video of one of my flights today, I just need to find out how to get it on to One of the host's

Great work guys...
Matt

All The Best

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07-14-2008 01:06 PM  9 years agoPost 56
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Fenestrom exchange

Matt, as usual you have taken it out of context again,
I spent a year messing around with the Vario suplied Fenestrom
It would have only taken less than an hour to exchange The Cine-scale for Vario
Peter R

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07-17-2008 06:38 PM  9 years agoPost 57
MattJen

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UK

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Well

i hope tris and darrens get their machien flying ready for the Vario show, it will be awsome to see it flying in good large circuits.

Again, well done guys

Matt

All The Best

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02-15-2009 01:41 AM  8 years agoPost 58
daytonabeach

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Oslo, Norway

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Im a little confused after reading this thread...

Does Vario sell a EC-135 for turbine mechanics that wont have a working fenestron tail?

I fell of in the last part here, but have you found any solution to the HH problem with the turbines?

Chris

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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02-15-2009 03:04 AM  8 years agoPost 59
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Let me put this simply. Vario sells an EC135 turbine kit with a fenestron which works!

If you want one which looks more scale, you can spend the extra money and get the VOG fenestron.

You can also get the diverter to go inside the fenestron tube and modify the pitch control to make it look better, that's what scale is all about, taking a basic kit which does its job and making it more like the real thing. Or, you can spend a fortune and get something which is super scale to start with.

I fly my EC135 turbines in HH mode all the time. I have never had a problem which is down to using HH.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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02-15-2009 09:13 AM  8 years agoPost 60
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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daytonabeach,Chris,You asked the question, about the Fenestrom system, is it your intention to go for petrol or Turbine mechanics?
Peter R

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