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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Real Life Carvec Experiences
07-13-2008 02:37 AM  9 years agoPost 41
FrankC

rrApprentice

Ocala, Florida

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At times I wish for a sort of "Carvec-Lite" as a subset of the package. My own needs are at a much smaller scale than most here, yet I have not found anything to match what I am looking for. I can skip the autonomous takeoff and landing, I just need that great big part in between. I would also like to get that from a company like Carvec. Last year I emailed a set of questions and got a very informative and prompt response. This is the kind of company you want to do business with, knowing you will be treated right. Maybe someday I will be wealthy, or have a wealthy backer, or maybe there will be a carvec-lite. In the meantime I'll keep watching here. Good information.

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07-16-2008 04:23 PM  9 years agoPost 42
flyfast

rrNovice

NY

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I have the core system with camera module in my gasser. I recommend going w/ an electric heli or the full-up system that's already built as I believe the gasser's heavy flywheel with it's gyroscopic effect is something the system fights and is the reason I get occilation in FF or wind, and therefore, the swashplate bearing needs routine change-out. I never did the programming upgrade this Spring where JC said everyone sent their IMU back, so that may have helped, not sure. Also, the alt-hold module (barametric) didn't really work-out - unless it was a dead-calm day and then, it was 'bumpy' to the point of pic blur - so it was returned.

Kevin M.

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07-20-2008 03:32 AM  9 years agoPost 43
JohnC

rrVeteran

East Yorkshire, England

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but that video didn't show anything that an ordinary heli cannot do
Most of the stuff which is released for public viewing is very tame in order not to draw the wrong kind of attention. Also, we don't want some of the competition to see what we are doing : it's amazing how quick the claims of something similar start to appear as 'future upgrades - coming soon'.

As this is a serious thread, maybe we can show a little of what some people are up to. This picture is from an aerial survey of jungle. The system took a maxi-Joker to 3,000 feet over 50 times in a period of 12 days.

This was a 'fun' picture after the stabilised vertical shot was done.

These are now a real alternative to full size aircraft where they can get superior results at a fraction of the price. The heli can take stabilised vertical shots at a specific Lat/Long and heading which can be easily overlaid onto something like google earth. The customer did a trial with a full size fixed-wing aircraft at the start and were blown away by the quality of the images from the heli.

I stress that this wasn't taken in the UK or the USA and was completely legal. You wouldn't do this near a big town - but for this application, it was completely safe.

JohnC

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07-20-2008 04:40 AM  9 years agoPost 44
Dakine

rrElite Veteran

OC, Commifornia

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The awesome thing about CARVEC is, the higher you go....the less you've got to worry about GPS signals. The bird will stay locked!!! Lower the collective, and she'll land within 3 meters where she took off from .

It's a magical thang....

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07-20-2008 04:47 AM  9 years agoPost 45
phil007

rrApprentice

Austin, Texas

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John,

That's amazing just getting it up to that altitude. What's you're highest altitude auto rotation?

Phil

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07-20-2008 10:33 AM  9 years agoPost 46
JohnC

rrVeteran

East Yorkshire, England

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Phil,

I've never had to auto a maxi Joker down : the PowerJazz is a reliable ESC and well up to the job of providing the power to climb there in 5 minutes. It gives a large degree of confidence to have an ESC which is so overrated for the task - especially in hot places.

If it was needed, the headspeed is on the video downlink overlay and negative pitch could be held in to keep the RPM where you want it. The position hold should bring it down over the same spot - so you would watch the video to about 400 feet then pick it up visually for the last part.

JohnC

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07-20-2008 10:30 PM  9 years agoPost 47
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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John, you say 3000ft in 5 minutes, how long does the descent take?
Straight down, or gliding paths?
No chance of overloading the powerjazz from that heights in steep descents?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-20-2008 10:48 PM  9 years agoPost 48
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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I've spent this past evening watching all the Carvec videos I could find.
Ros, have some links?
I want to see too

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-21-2008 05:00 AM  9 years agoPost 49
JohnC

rrVeteran

East Yorkshire, England

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The descent is pretty quick : I adjust the pitch for minimum blade noise and it the overlay shows it dropping at about 25 feet/sec. I come straight down with my helis and have never had a vortex ring issue - though they are all quite light compared to some rigs and have plenty of power.

I'm not sure what the guy flying that one does (I wasn't there for the flights). I think he is in forward flight as he is normally a few hundred meters away as well as being up high.

No issues with the powerjazz during any of the flights going up or coming down. Bear in mind though these Kestrel series machines have had a LOT of test flights to prove the reliability of the installation (ie compass, GPS, CARVEC system unit). I would never attempt this with a new, unproven setup.

JohnC

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07-21-2008 06:14 AM  9 years agoPost 50
ehx

rrApprentice

Northern Minnesota

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A Maxi Joker can climb at about 30 feet/second. Throw on a moderate 5 or 6 pound load and you can still do 15+ feet/second or about a thousand feet a minute without maxing things out. Coming down can be faster.

I've done hundreds of flights climbing and descending at ~ 15 feet/second, mostly straight up and straight down, with moderate payloads and the PowerJazz ESC. It really doesn't tax the system.

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07-21-2008 10:11 AM  9 years agoPost 51
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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So this means, you can achieve these heights, stay up there for a minutes shooting, and come down again safely with a battery pack that gives you 10 min safe flying time, at least theoretically?

Anyone with Eagletree system or similiar that have a read-out graph on how much current it draws with a fast climbing rate like this, and how much in a fast descend?

Just curious, will have my own full Eagletree system in 3 weeks...

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-21-2008 09:39 PM  9 years agoPost 52
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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the PowerJazz is a reliable ESC and well up to the job of providing the power to climb there in 5 minutes.
It might consume less power if you took longer.
No chance of overloading the powerjazz from that heights in steep descents?
How does this overload the controller? If the controller had the ability to regen it could actually put power back into the battery. At any rate it takes power to lift the heli to 3000 ft. Gravity brings it down and could actually charge your battery if the controller had the smarts.
I adjust the pitch for minimum blade noise and it the overlay shows it dropping at about 25 feet/sec. I come straight down with my helis and have never had a vortex ring issue
I don’t see how you could have a vortex ring if you are falling that fast. The issue might only occur when you try to stop the decline which can easily be prevented when the heli gets in visual range.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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07-21-2008 09:51 PM  9 years agoPost 53
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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Okay, then i guess the "overloading" will just occur if you briefly have to brake the downward speed pretty hard if you realize youre coming down to fast, in that stage the ESC will get warmer since it uses maximum power to add full throttle, right?

But as i said, that would probably be for 10-20 secs if youre forced to... you dont just suddenly stop 10kg in mid air on its way down, at least not with my setup
Thats what i meant about "overloading"

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-22-2008 05:44 PM  9 years agoPost 54
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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But as i said, that would probably be for 10-20 secs if youre forced to... you dont just suddenly stop 10kg in mid air on its way down, at least not with my setup
The motor will not draw anymore current than it does in a full power climbout. The distance it takes to stop is affected by speed and weight though.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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07-22-2008 05:50 PM  9 years agoPost 55
trackhead

rrKey Veteran

utah

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Ace,

This is a thread about the Carvec, not an ESC. Please stop drifting. Thanks.

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07-22-2008 05:55 PM  9 years agoPost 56
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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Ok, i wont argue with you about that

I thought that a resistance equal to force the rotor to work harder to spin would do that, but i understand it doesnt work like that

So the conclusion is that it will draw as much power on the way up as it will on its way down in a "brake" phase, it is then just the rpm on the engine that decides how much power it consume no matter up or down, and the ESC temp will remain the same in both situations, right?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-22-2008 05:56 PM  9 years agoPost 57
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

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Sorry Trackead, roger that, 10-4.... Out!

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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07-22-2008 05:58 PM  9 years agoPost 58
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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So if someone makes misinformed statements there is no need to set them straight unless you use the name Carvec.

OK so if you have a Carvec system on board your heli will consume less power coming down then it does going up. Of course everyone else's heli will do the same.

Is that better?

Ace
What could be more fun?

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07-22-2008 07:05 PM  9 years agoPost 59
HawkEyeMedia

rrApprentice

Fort Worth, Texas

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On a long high descent, mine will actually be auto-rotating and the headspeed will go up a couple hundred rpm. The motor current drops to nearly nothing because the rotor speed is higher than the governed rpm. When I get to around 150 feet, I start easing the collective up and transition to an approach for landing. There's no need to suddenly apply full collective to stop the descent, unless you've not been paying attention and you find yourself running out of altitude.

On Sunday the ambient temp was 101F. My Jazz 55-10-32 with a heatsink mod would peak at 52C in hover, and rapidly drop to about 44C during the descent.

That's one thing nice about the Carvec, you can see all of your important data through the downlink. With the onboard flight data recorder, you can download the data and graph all of the parameters from the flight in Excel. Being able to see the raw data from the accelerometers is very handy for eliminating vibration.

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Real Life Carvec Experiences
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