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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › What is the best tail Servo for Gasser with​GY401??
05-16-2008 07:39 AM  9 years agoPost 1
jascamera

rrVeteran

san francisco, ca

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Guys,

I currently run GY 401 with 9254 servo. But I have been hearing many people are having problem with 9254, especially on gassers. Just wonder is there a better option for tail servo that will give me peace of mind? I use the gasser for AP, so reliability is most important. Not doing any 3d, but solid tail hold is a must, any suggestions?

Someone recommended Hitec 6965--anyone have any experience with them? I am grounding both my AP heli till I get a new servo replacement.

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05-16-2008 11:00 AM  9 years agoPost 2
Billme

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MS

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I run this combo on one of my Predators, and on my Vario Acrobatic...

Since you are using it for A/P, all you need to do is run your gain where you need it..

For those wanting performance using this combo, run the limits wide open, and then program the limits in the servo...You will be surprised how well the 401 will do in this configuration..

the 9254 is good for 30 to 50 size machines..The 6965 is design to replace this servo, and has much better strength for a gasser...
I have been flying this servo ever since it came out, and have never had a problem ...
Bill

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05-16-2008 02:58 PM  9 years agoPost 3
litespeed600

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St. Charles,​Missouri

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Wow what a great thing to hear...an option. My tail sucked on my predator last year although with building my house got limited time on it. Had a couple local pro's setting it up for me and just could never get the tail to hold right. So what do I do? I went from 105 tail blades to 120 RotorTechs. I guess it will prolly be worse. I think I'll try the Hitec too.

The 9254 at 47 oz in vs 6965 at 118 oz in with a .02 second penelty in time.

Sounds good to me. Heck all the Futaba digitals including the new brushless ones hover at the 47 in oz of torque. Easy to buy into this philosophy of lack of strength.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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05-16-2008 04:02 PM  9 years agoPost 4
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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I have flown a JR 8900 on a 401 in a GSR for AP work. Nice servo, don't know how it'll do in the long run but it's a nice servo.

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05-16-2008 05:44 PM  9 years agoPost 5
jascamera

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san francisco, ca

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Bill,

How long have you been running this combo 6965 trouble free?

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05-16-2008 07:31 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Billme

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MS

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Ever since they came out.. I know its been over two years...Its great servo....
Bill

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05-16-2008 07:35 PM  9 years agoPost 7
Billme

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MS

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litespeed, if your machine is the condor, then the 120's are fine, you need the speed up gear on the tail for them also...If your running 720's then the 115 with the speed up gear is your best shot...
If you run 120's on gear ratio less than 7.5, then the tail speed will be to fast for 120's, and may flutter...
Bill

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05-16-2008 09:53 PM  9 years agoPost 8
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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The 9254 at 47 oz in vs 6965 at 118 oz in with a .02 second penelty in time.
I wouldn't be using a 47 oz servo on the Predator when the manual recommends above 70.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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05-16-2008 10:55 PM  9 years agoPost 9
KarbonBird

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Australia

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the 9254 is good for 30 to 50 size machines..
Does that mean it's no good for 90+ size e.g. a GSR 260?

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05-16-2008 11:21 PM  9 years agoPost 10
jascamera

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san francisco, ca

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If the Manuel recommend 70oz of torque, that means 9254 should never be use on a gasser. Maybe that's why there's so many failures. Wrong servo for the gasser. I have 9254 on both 800mm gasser and a 600 electric. I am not flying the gasser till I get the Hitec tail servo, and will try not the fly the electric if I don't have to.

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05-16-2008 11:48 PM  9 years agoPost 11
litespeed600

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St. Charles,​Missouri

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litespeed, if your machine is the condor, then the 120's are fine, you need the speed up gear on the tail for them also...If your running 720's then the 115 with the speed up gear is your best shot...
If you run 120's on gear ratio less than 7.5, then the tail speed will be to fast for 120's, and may flutter...
Bill
I'm pretty sure that I do have the step up gear ratio in the tail but not for sure. I may just try the servo first. Thanks for the tip Bill.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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05-17-2008 12:07 AM  9 years agoPost 12
litespeed600

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St. Charles,​Missouri

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 9254 at 47 oz in vs 6965 at 118 oz in with a .02 second penelty in time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't be using a 47 oz servo on the Predator when the manual recommends above 70.
Funny you say that Acebird because prior to or besides the Hitec 6965 I don't believe there is a fast servo out there that would work as a tail servo. At 70 oz in I don't think there is a gyro/servo package availible???

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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05-17-2008 12:24 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Billme

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MS

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Karbonbird,

It is what it is, but let me say something on that... i have flown the 9254 on my machines... It will let you know when it goes bad..Either the gears will get stiff because of the motor, or it will kick 90 to 180 degs all of sudden in flight...When you see this, you need to land..
Otherwise they will do ok for a while.. Mine lasted about a year..
If your sport flying, and been running it, no need to do anything till you get a warning...

The trick to making them last is to keep the mechanical system very very free...any resistance it want last...
I didn't want to put up with this, so I got the 6965 when they came out..everyone at the time was scared of that name brand, but I give them a shot...I like them so well i tried the 5945 on cyclics... I run them on a vario 4 point ccpm... They have upgraded that servo to the 5985 now .
On my Predators I run nothing but futaba on cyclics with the 6965 on the tail
Bill

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05-17-2008 12:32 PM  9 years agoPost 14
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Funny you say that Acebird because prior to or besides the Hitec 6965 I don't believe there is a fast servo out there that would work as a tail servo.
What are you talking about? I use analogue servos HS 965MG's and they are more than adequate for the tail. Hitec has everything under the sun. You must remember the torque/speed rating of a servo is only a rating. If you under size the torque value the servo will not live up to its speed rating. The speed rating is only valid if the torque applied is less than the torque rating of the servo. When the torque applied is greater than the servo rating the speed slows way down.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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05-17-2008 03:16 PM  9 years agoPost 15
litespeed600

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St. Charles,​Missouri

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What are you talking about? I use analogue servos HS 965MG's and they are more than adequate for the tail. Hitec has everything under the sun. You must remember the torque/speed rating of a servo is only a rating. If you under size the torque value the servo will not live up to its speed rating. The speed rating is only valid if the torque applied is less than the torque rating of the servo. When the torque applied is greater than the servo rating the speed slows way down
I had no idea. I used to use little non-digital servos on my starting stuff, Humming Bird 3D Pro and Eco 8 and the tail servo didn't last very well with a 401. And those were really fast servo's.
I never really had a true "locked in feel" till I went to the 9253/9254's on my bigger Swift and eRaptor. I used that experience to guide me with my gasser. Funny how before now I have never read this nor has anyone I have ever talked to ran anything other than the pre-packaged gyro combo's on thier 90 sized ships......I stand on the fact that I didn't know and information is key!!! Last fun fly I went to most ran either a 401/9254 or 601/611 stock combo. These were the "fly like Alan" pro's. Gassers too.

I'm glad I now know.

I again am glad these forums exsist to help a brother out.

I wonder if I should take my throttle servo and but it on the tail just to see? It's a Ace 1015 .10 and over 200 oz in. It's fast and doesn't need to be on the throttle.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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05-17-2008 07:54 PM  9 years agoPost 16
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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It's a Ace 1015 .10 and over 200 oz in.
I am not into stick banging but these specs are impressive. I can't speak for the quality of the servo though. You had that on the throttle???

Ace
What could be more fun?

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05-17-2008 09:52 PM  9 years agoPost 17
whitetrash

rrApprentice

Spain

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Ok now I know that was a warning. Some months ago my heli did the 90 degrees thing on the tail. I am using the 401-9254 combo and this is 2.5 years old. I did not have any problem until that 90 degrees kick and haven't had another warning since then.

So I was going to buy the hitec 6965 and was reading some information about it. Then I went to Hitec's USA webpage and read this about the 6965:

"Note: Be aware that high vibration gas (not glow) engines combined with large control surfaces and large throws (3D models) can put undue strain on the gears. Metal geared servos are recommended for these applications even if under 12lbs."

So that means Hitec does not recommend this servo for gasser helicopters? Is there any metal geared servo that Hitec's recommends for a gasser?

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05-17-2008 09:52 PM  9 years agoPost 18
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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This issue is kind of silly. The 70 oz/in torque spec from Century is ONLY for the swash plate servos. The tail flies fine with a 9254, performance wise. There may be reliability and longevity issues with the 9254 but when it's new it performs great. This is true even on a 50 size heli. If I were to put a new servo on my tail it'd be either a 8900 or a 6965 but the 9254 specs are plenty to move the tail controls. Certainly the specs for the 9251 on my tail (51 oz-in) don't meet the 70 oz-in minimum but is plenty strong for this tail.

Now as far as the tail goes, Century could really step up here and make a counter-weighted tail blade grip. I suspect that would put them in the talks all over the heli boards and at the fields. I'd try it out on my Raptor, probably going to do that anyway with the thrust bearings in the grips.

As far as a throttle servo goes, I'll bet the only real requirement is reliability. With a straight shot from the carb to the servo it needs to put up with the vibrations. I'm pretty sure a micro servo would work except they don't put up with the hammering from the engine.

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05-18-2008 02:42 AM  9 years agoPost 19
litespeed600

rrKey Veteran

St. Charles,​Missouri

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I know the 1015 is over kill on the throttle but when I bought the heli I bought the 4 1015s too. I didn't have any el-cheap-O servo's to put on the throttle and wasn't go to buy a servo whilst I had this one. I can tell you that with these 4 1015's and the digital tail really sucks some juice. 2s2p a123's to the rescue!

I think that the 9254s just wear out after time.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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05-18-2008 05:30 AM  9 years agoPost 20
FCM

rrElite Veteran

Surrey, England

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Here's my thoughts regarding running the 401 gyro on gasser helis:

The 401 picks up engine vibrations that are normally present in gasser heli frames and transmits these vibations as small corrections to the servo. The 9245 is a fast servo and this may make the situation worse as it is able to respond at a quicker rate than the Hitec 6965 servo can. As such I think it not the higher torque of the Hitec that is making it more reliable in use compared to the 9254 but the fact it is slower and has a more robust motor making it less heat sensitive.

The CSM gyro when used on my gassers with the vibration filter selected on, makes for far less servo heat even with a 9254 fitted. I assume the Futaba 611 has a better sensor/vibration filter that gives similar cooler servo running but you can't run a 611 with a 9254.

The trade off of using a slower servo will be reduced gyro hold in heading hold mode. No biggy in normal use but fitting slower and slower servos with higher torque will result in a tail that will not lock at all and will only fly in normal mode. This is what we used way back in the bad old electro mechanical gyro days as just about all coreless servos then (and many cored)responded faster than the gyro's output signal change. Now it's the other way around and there is no way any servo with current technology, could be made to respond faster than the output signal chnage of a solid state gyro whatever the make.

Paul.

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