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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Would you give up your rights to an image?
05-13-2008 04:15 AM  9 years agoPost 1
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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I have a potential client who is a member of a very, very exclusive beautiful private golf club. He knows what I charge for my real estate shots and thinks I should charge him the same rate to shoot a very specific hole on the course. In addition, he wants to completely own the pictures and files. He has drawn up a written contract stating so. The club does not allow anyone to photograph the course from the ground other than members, so it would be a special shot, but they absolutely don't want the shot sold by me or leaked out some how. I probably couldn't even show you guys when I'm done.

His contract does have a provision for me to produce one image to hand show people, but that's it. He says he doesn't intend to make money on the shot, just may distribute it to his family, the club president, and other members. (there are only 250 of them)

I want to give him a fair price, but obviously the terms are very one sided.

Now I have the contract in hand and plan on showing it to my friend who is an attourney for his opinion, but what do you guys think this shot would be worth under these circumstances and have any of you done anything similar?

Tip

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05-13-2008 04:30 AM  9 years agoPost 2
d-bledsoe

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Kirkland WA

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If he wants the full rights to the image charge him 2-3x your normal rate, otherwise i'd pass. It seems kind of odd that he wants full rights if all he is going to do is distribute to his clubmates and family, you dont normally get asked for full rights unless you are planning to make money off the image.

I'd never give up the full rights to my images, unless compensated very well for it.

Derek Bledsoe

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05-13-2008 04:49 AM  9 years agoPost 3
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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There is a price for everything. Golfers are weird. Then again I have no problem selling him the rights to the entire shoot if the price is right. I am not that attached to a picture of a golf course. ;-)

I would be more inclined to keep the right to something that I would consider my artistic shot.

Since you can't use the shot for your benefit I would charge him double or triple a day's shoot.

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05-13-2008 05:02 AM  9 years agoPost 4
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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It would be a very specific and artistic shot, maybe take several runs to get exactly what he wants...then who knows how long editing to get the colors just right. (also very specific) I haven't really established a day rate yet, but maybe now is the time. If anyone has pricing suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Send me a pm if you'd rather not say here.

I don't want to lose the job, but don't want to get screwed either. He wants me to shoot his house also.

Tip

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05-13-2008 05:20 AM  9 years agoPost 5
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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I might ad, if I were able to sell prints of this proposed shot, it would probably be worth quite a lot. There are some pretty good (not great) full scale aerials for sale in a gallery shot by helicopter. I was told by the gallery attendant, that's the only way they can shoot this location, since they don't allow any ground photography.

Tip

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05-13-2008 05:30 AM  9 years agoPost 6
KarbonBird

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Australia

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This is a touchy area, but in this case I would charge a bit more than normal and do the deal (higher rate explained by "exclusive use". If it is worth more down the track, you stand to lose that if you don't give him what he wants down the line. If it was a public building or landmark that could be on-sold there may be value in holding on to copyright, but in this case exclusive use would not really benefit. A tough call really, but I would definitely go with as it's only a single shot. Next round, after they have seen the quality of your work, you will be better able to negotiate conditions. Just my thoughts...

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05-13-2008 06:06 AM  9 years agoPost 7
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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A lot of people like exclusivity and are willing to pay for it. Satisfying your client is job number one. Especially one that is willing to pay for it. You may wind up taking exclusive one off photographs for a whole bunch of exclusive clients. You will have a lot of stories to tell your grand kids and a lot of money in your bank. What if Tiger Woods ask you to take an exclusive photograph of a certain hole for his golf course?

I would say somewhere between $5,000 to $10,000 would be a good figure.

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05-13-2008 06:14 AM  9 years agoPost 8
borneobear

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Kuala Lumpur,​Malaysia.

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They just want to maintain the 'exclusivity' of their course. Can't have that if pictures are floating all over cyberspace.

There is a price for being 'exclusive' (3 times normal sounds about right).

Other than monetary, you also get more customer exposure and experience (priceless). Its a win-win, IMHO.

If you don't take the job, someone else will.

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05-13-2008 06:29 AM  9 years agoPost 9
airmobile

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Santa Clarita,​Calif.

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Although I have never done any aerial photography, I have worked with and assisted some pro photogs that do mainly entertainment and glamour work.
My question is why isn't every job you get an exclusive, for that client? Whether it's for a real estate ad, wedding, or a certain hole on a golf course, what would you do or use copies of what the client gets? I'd have thought that any work you'd get from a customer would be exclusive, with them having all rights to the images. With that in mind, I'd have thought that this client's contract is spelling out in writing that he owns and has all rights, which I'd understand.
With my thinking of all this, I personally would be charging a (fair) rate for my work that assumed that the client owns all rights, unless otherwise agreed to.

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05-13-2008 06:50 AM  9 years agoPost 10
d-bledsoe

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Kirkland WA

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I would say somewhere between $5,000 to $10,000 would be a good figure.
Might be a little high as thats about our day rate for HD video, but defiantly i would say start at 1000$ for the exclusive rights to a small set number of images, say 5. Since you plan on doing a fair bit of touch up work tack on an extra 500$ for the clean up work, but you dont call it clean up you call it processing.

So you're looking at 1500$-2000$ The biggest thing is dont undersell your self just because you are afraid to loose a client. Your time and skills are worth money and you should be compensated accordingly.

Derek Bledsoe

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05-13-2008 07:02 AM  9 years agoPost 11
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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I really don't know what Tip plan to use to capture this photograph. I would definitely consider $1,000 a day shoot is not unreasonable. So add on 3 times that amount will make it $3,000. Add a little more because it is a golf course should bring it up to $5,000 easily. If it is $5,000 for 5 well edited images that the client may print up to a 22" X 30" print that is certain well worth a well heeled client's budget.

Of course a disposable camera in a Slow Stick will not bring in that kind of money. Then again I am sure that Tip is talking about some nice quality image here.;-)

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05-13-2008 07:08 AM  9 years agoPost 12
d-bledsoe

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Kirkland WA

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True, Didn't think of the break down like that. Looking back when i'd do photos i had a 1200$ a day shooting fee, even says so on my website so i dont know what i was thinking.

3-5k$ is probly close to what i'd charge given the opportunity, i defiantly wouldn't do it for any less then 2500$

Derek Bledsoe

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05-13-2008 07:16 AM  9 years agoPost 13
BungeeMike

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Honolulu, Hawaii

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If the golf guy knows what he already charges hitting him for $3-5k might scare him off. I can see 2-3x a regular shoot price as its one hole. It also may open up some doors for him as well if he does a good job (which I'm sure he will) and he can adjust the rate then with other clients. Getting in with the right people in the golfing community could be very valuable
My thoughts
Bungee

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05-13-2008 08:45 AM  9 years agoPost 14
CKY

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Sunshine Coast, BC,​Canada

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How much do you think YOU will lose by giving up rights to the photo in the long run?

If the shot is so incredible that the customer can make millions from it you have a delema.

Otherwise, 2 to 3 times your normal(?) rate. If you are turning down work because you are overbooked, then naturally your normal rate will be high. Don't get too caught up in what others may do with your photos, you could learn something from their marketing skills??

You also have to respect their privacy wishes.

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05-13-2008 10:12 AM  9 years agoPost 15
macsgrafs

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Barnstaple, Devon,​UK

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Take the shots, take the money & run It's only a golf course & hardly going to be a best seller, unless it was evening time & you had a golfer siloutted against the sun.

Ross

Seems to me that ALL heli's beat the air into submission

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05-13-2008 11:01 AM  9 years agoPost 16
UAV Systems

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Brisbane, Queensland​- Australia

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negotiate a reduced membership for the golf club - that way you can always have access to your own picture (as member no. 251)

"CASA certified since 2007"

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05-13-2008 11:41 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Hobbs

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Greene, Maine

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Give up rights?

Give up all rights, as the photographer, I don't think so. At the very least I would stipulate, in the contract, that the shot could be seen in my own portfolio of my work. Don't give up all your rights to your work. You never know. I do agree with everyone else, 2-3 times normal day shoot rates.

Trex 500 Cf
Trex 450 SA
Exceed G2 Raptor

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05-13-2008 01:00 PM  9 years agoPost 18
HawkEyeMedia

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Fort Worth, Texas

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I've been negotiating with a client on a job and part of our debate is very similar to your question.

While doing some research to defend my position on my pricing strategy. I came across a website for another professional photographer that made some interesting points about pricing.

http://www.danheller.com/biz-sales.html

Good luck.

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

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05-13-2008 01:55 PM  9 years agoPost 19
dreslism

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Rochester Hills, MI

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He says he doesn't intend to make money on the shot,
You said he has a contract written up. Is the above in the contract?

If you give up your copyright to him and he changes his mind later, and decides to sell it, nothing you can do.

If you're going to give up your rights to it, then get the part about not using it for profit put into the contract, along with not being able to re-sell the image. Meaning, he can't profit from it now, and don't let him be able to sell it later, but claim some expense for the image that offsets the "profit" from selling it.

Same thing for the 250 members he plans to "give" it to. They don't own the copyright, so they cannot re-sell their copy. If it's that exclusive, then you'd be surprised how many would give up a copy of their image for a sale, then what do you do? You don't have any rights any more, he does, but doubt he would go after someone in his club on it.

If you are going to give up your rights to it, and his current story is he does not plan to profit from it, then there should be no problem with him adding to the contract.

Also he has to know, that real estate shots are a different market, so different pricing, AND you are NOT asked to give up rights to a photo in the real estate market, so the pricing HAS to be different, no way he can expect you to charge the same.

I would personally do all I could to not give up the rights to the photo.

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05-13-2008 03:08 PM  9 years agoPost 20
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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Of course a disposable camera in a Slow Stick will not bring in that kind of money. Then again I am sure that Tip is talking about some nice quality image here.;-)
That's funny. I'm going to use a slow stick and fisher price camera and I want $20,000!

I'll use a heli on this one, probably with the D300.

Lots of food for thought here guys. What about charging him a basic rate and controlling the printing, tacking on say $25 to each one. That way, if he does print up 250 copies, I would profit from it?

Tip

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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Would you give up your rights to an image?
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