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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
07-10-2008 05:51 AM  9 years agoPost 1401
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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Tee-Jay: Ok new question. How long is the tail shaft on your Rex guys?
TREX SA; black shaft, white gear; 41.3mm.

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 06:32 AM  9 years agoPost 1402
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I just tried again and there is 0 possiblity the main blades on my HBK will contact the tail blades and I have 450 tail blades on it
I'm guessing that's with the stock blades? I'm running 275mm and can make contact with tips if I really push hard. And that's with stock tail blades. If I recall correctly Tryan is running 15mm longer blades which puts it closer to the tail.

In my case, by the time the tips are touching, its not that much further to striking the top of the vertical fin. I'm guessing its fine as long as you don't go over 275mm and keep your dampers in good shape.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-10-2008 07:04 AM  9 years agoPost 1403
Griffin

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Knoxville TN

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Speaking of dampers can anyone reccomend a good stiff set for the king, and CNC head on my belt? I think my king is fine for now the new head only has about 25 flights, but my belt CNC head seems like there is alot of play in the dampeners. I would really like to replace them with something stiffer.

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07-10-2008 07:09 AM  9 years agoPost 1404
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I need some new dampers as well. I was thinking of trying the Trex 450 dampers, either stock or the Trueblood versions. Tryan, Shiz or Tj should be able to tell if they are the same size.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-10-2008 07:36 AM  9 years agoPost 1405
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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The TREX V1 dampers are a smidge bigger around the outside than Esky's. I've used them in the King from almost the beginning. You need to press them into the head block on both sides before feeding the spindle through, because if you just try to press them in with pressure from the blade grips they won't seat properly.

Once they're seated, they do provide stiffer damping. Coat them or the spindle with a little grease (I've read Vaseline works well, but doesn't Vaseline break down rubber?) for ease of insertion.

Uhhh, parts of that don't read very well...

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 07:51 AM  9 years agoPost 1406
Griffin

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Knoxville TN

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I'm interested in what the likes of tyran, tj, or shiz say. I really need to replace the ones in the belt-cp I get way too much play from the ones that are in there now.

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07-10-2008 07:54 AM  9 years agoPost 1407
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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Get the TREX dampers. You can probably get them locally. Just make sure they're for the V1 head, as the V2 head uses a stepped 4mm spindle, and its dampers have a 4mm I.D.

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 11:24 AM  9 years agoPost 1408
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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Dont waste your time with REX dampeners why do you think they double them up and then hold them in place with a collar? Get a foot of windshield washer hose automotive store like dougie and if you want stiffer dampening just cut them wider. Thats how Align does it just with two orings and 2 different size collars.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-10-2008 01:23 PM  9 years agoPost 1409
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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OK, semi-legitimate post/question here.

What's with the tail wag/bounce?
Gyro gain on tx: 78%
Wags down to 60%
Tail loses hold around 63%
Headspeed: just under 2800 rpm
Perfectly set up in rate mode
RCE 500X gyro
HS81 tail servo
No binding
Same difference EPA 80% - 125%
Align 35G ESC @ 5V
430L motor

Watch at YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCXv_kXYdyM

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 03:31 PM  9 years agoPost 1410
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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Belt good? Tight? No stripped gears in HS81?

If not I would think it was a gyro thing. Maybe there are some vibs that are affecting it?

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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07-10-2008 04:40 PM  9 years agoPost 1411
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Don't say just get a Trex!

Loved that comment. Ya know if post this in the Trex forum they's say "should have got a futaba gyro"

Anyway, to answer the question, I've had a bad case of the bounce on my HBK2 a number of times. In my rearch and study of the state of my tail I found a few contributors.

Slop in the linkage - Disconnect the tail linkage at the servo or the slider arm. First move it throughout the range to make sure its smooth. Next hold the tail blades, then push and pull on the arm. In my case I found the pivot screw for the linkage arm backed out a tiny bit. But just enough to cause add a little slop to the slider movement. Also, if any roughness or lack of smoothness was found find and address that as well.

Servo response/mechanical abilities slower than gyro response - From Spartan help page
http://www.spartan-rc.com/support.php item 11
Let's imagine a car driving at high speed when suddenly the driver needs to do an emergency stop. From the moment such decision is made until the car has come to a stop, the car has continued to travel due to the reaction time required to hit the break and the time required for the car to decelerate. A similar effect happens to a helicopter that yaws fast when suddenly the pilot returns the rudder stick to neutral, thus command the gyro to stop the helicopter. Time is required for the servo to respond as well as to decelerate the tail. Depending on the servo speed and the mechanical capabilities of the heli the combined deceleration distance may vary from a few centimeters which is hardly perceivable by the human eye to several centimetres. However, unlike the car example, the gyro remembers where the tail was the moment that the stick was returned to neutral. Thus as soon as the helicopter stops the gyro will continue driving back to that point. This appears as a bouncy stop. Bouncy stops can very easily be fixed using the Deceleration Profile adjustment via the PC, PDA or detachable LCD. Effectively, this adjustment tells the ds760 how rapidly to decelerate the tail with the aim of keeping this task within the mechanical capabilities of your helicopter. You also also adjust the CW/CCW stop gains which control the responsiveness of the gyro during stops.
Servo arm offsetting From CSM (an uncommon gyro)
Some helicopter tail linkage geometries give somewhat asymmetric response to tail pushrod movement with much more rapid changes in pitch occurring one way than the other. In these cases the servo throw to cover the full pitch range may be greater one way than the other. The SL720 has independent travel adjustments for the two directions to accommodate these differences. In some machines more symmetrical handling characteristics may be obtained if the servo arm is rotated around one or even two splines on the servo shaft so that it is no longer at right angles to the pushrod when the servo is centred. A change in the pushrod length will be needed to restore the 8 degrees of pitch with the servo centred. With the servo arm offset in the correct direction the servo throws will be more equal. Remember that the travel limits will need re-adjusting after this process to ensure the full tail pitch range is available.

Adjusting the Stop quality

At the initial installation you will have made sure that the servo travel limits are set so the tail pitch each way is limited only by the mechanical limits of the linkage. You will also have carried out the Quick-trim procedure and adjusted the gyro gain to the maximum that gives no wagging. Now assess the quality of the left and right stops from fast pirouettes (i.e. full stick). Note if the stops are sharp enough for your flying style and see if there is a marked difference between the two stops noting which stop is the softer. If you are trying to obtain fast stops you will find, beyond a certain point, that increasing the gyro gain has only a marginal effect on stop speed. This is because the available tail rotor authority dominates stop times from fast pirouettes. If, having optimised the gain, the stops are softer than you require you will need to increase the power of the tail rotor. Since you will already be using the maximum pitch range available increase in the tail blade length should be made. A small increase in tail blade length can make a large increase in the available thrust of the tail rotor. Longer tail blades increase the mechanical gain of the tail system so an adjustment to the gyro gain may be needed.
In many cases only one of the stops is soft. Check that the mode 0 trim is acceptable and repeat Quick-trim if needed before re-assessing the difference between the stops. A lack of tail-rotor pitch one way (usually in the leftward direction) is quite common. This shows up in slower entry into left pirouettes and slower stops from right pirouettes and can be especially noticeable with governed engine systems in low G manoeuvres (e.g. stall turns). We find that good tail performance is obtained with 45 degrees of right tail pitch and 35 degrees of left tail pitch. In extreme cases it may be necessary to increase the tail blade length until the soft stop becomes acceptable. Prevent the faster stop becoming excessively hard by a small reduction in the travel adjustment for the appropriate pitch direction.Generally this will be all that is required to obtain matched stops from all speeds. However if stops from more modest speeds of about 180 deg./s show some left-right imbalance then these can be matched by use of the stop tracking controls via the PC interface

The left and right hand stops are not equal. Stops from right hand turns are slow but clean while left hand stops are bouncy.- The mechanical tail trim needs setting correctly. Carry out the procedure in the Quick-trim section of this manual and reassess. If you still have problems, try reducing one servo travel as follows: - if bouncy when stopping left turns, reduce the right pitch travel limit and vice versa.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-10-2008 07:34 PM  9 years agoPost 1412
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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Don't say just get a Trex!
I think I understand that mentality I probably would of been sayin the same thing.

Anyone who started on a BCPP modded the crap out of it then still could hardly keep it flying. Then decided to get a TREX at the LHS reccomendation of course and learned to fly it not experiencing anything else would have the ignorant mentality that the only good heli is a TREX and would say to everyone just get a TREX!

Thankfully I experienced the king My REX is better than the king in size, performance, and quality. But it sure as heck cost more than $65. And although my REX gets the most flight time The King is my showpiece and the REX is my everyday beater heli.

Maybe I'm wrong Im sure there is even better heli's than a REX but Im guessing this is where the mentality come from.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-10-2008 11:24 PM  9 years agoPost 1413
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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I may have found something...I disconnected the linkage at the servo and there's no slop, or any of the stuff G mentioned, but...when I pull the linkage all the way forward, simulating full right yaw, it feels like it wants to "stick" against the tail-box side for a second. So, if it deflects fully in that direction to quickly stop a hard-left yaw, it may be sticking there for just long enough to keep turning back to the right for a split-second.

Seems like either a burr or "fat shaft".

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 11:30 PM  9 years agoPost 1414
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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fly it harder so it will loosen up.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-10-2008 11:57 PM  9 years agoPost 1415
shizack

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Aiken, SC USA

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Sanded it down; oiled it. Almost no stickiness now, but that wasn't it. It still bounces, even with small stabs of left rudder. Oh well. I'm off tomorrow, so maybe I'll figure it out then.

A soul in tension is learning to fly

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07-10-2008 11:59 PM  9 years agoPost 1416
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Glad you found it. I tell you, that simple test will tell you alot about the state of your tail setup. The first time I did it I found at least two major issues and was

I managed to sneak in 3 packs in today around lunch time Still a little windy, but flew anyway. Had one occasion where a downdraft dropped me from 6ft. There was drama as I was pushing hard on the collective to recover. Heli just about touched down and blew bark all over the place.

Still working on eights and still quite nervous to do nose-in outside. Silly, I know. I can do it all day long in the garage. I forced at least one nose-in take off and of course it was very uneventful. I just need to push through being such a nervous Nelly.

I was in idle-up all day and every landing was an auto. Only from about a foot, which isn't that hard. I'm continuing to do autos just to keep the T.hold switch familiar to my right hand.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-11-2008 12:07 AM  9 years agoPost 1417
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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I was in idle-up all day and every landing was an auto. Only from about a foot, which isn't that hard. I'm continuing to do autos just to keep the T.hold switch familiar to my right hand.
Is it just me or would the TH be easier to use if it was reversed? pushing down is easier for me than pulling up. Have considered turning the switch 180 in the case.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-11-2008 12:31 AM  9 years agoPost 1418
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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little too windy to fly right now maybe a few packs out front before dark. 59 left.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-11-2008 02:23 AM  9 years agoPost 1419
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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Yippie! I actually get to say I had a fligth today and it was with the Rex! It has rained here for the last 2 days. Hello! I live in the desert! Anyhow there was a break and I didn't care about waiting for the 30K thing, so I went out and spun up the Rex for the first time with mains on. It did extremely well. No vibes. No wiggles. Nothing. Well except maybe for some extra gear noise. I think those dark blue gears are so hard that they sound weird. Anyhow it flew great. I need to dial the tail in but otherwise it did just fine and nothing came flying off

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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07-11-2008 02:28 AM  9 years agoPost 1420
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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Well I was flying mine while you were winning the 30,000. Flawless performance. I had to hold it once about 40ft up over a car that was passing through. bet they really wondered what I was doing out there holding that remote.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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