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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
07-08-2008 03:21 PM  9 years agoPost 1341
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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heres the blades Im using.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXLBF3&P=M
I had to modify them to put a set of King holders on them MX400 are too thick. But they are the cheapest I found at the length I wanted for testing the scale bird. I will be using 288mm carbons on my next build.

Oh and burly I had nothing to do with the REX in the photo I left it downstairs it came all the way up and jumped in the photo at the last minute. Those dang T-Rix's are camera hog drama queens.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-08-2008 04:20 PM  9 years agoPost 1342
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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About the blade contact, here was my post on the topic

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t439457p1/
I've recently fitted my HBK2 with Align blades cut down to 275mm. To make sure there no risk of the main blades hitting the tail blades, I pushed the blades down and was able to get the tips of the new blades to make contact with the tail blades. It did take about 2 inches of travel and I tend to think the blades will never travel this far under normal flight conditions. But in case I need to pull back really hard, I don't want to worry about it. The other wrinkle is that this test was done with stock tail blades. I'd like to put my 450 sized tail blades back on, but now I don't know.

I know there are a lot of guys running these longer blades and haven't had a problem. Is it a case of most users of these longer blades not pushing the heli hard enough, or that the blades will not deflect enough to make contact?
The unanswered question is how far will the rotor disc tilt under extreme flight conditons. As expected, damper stiffness as well as damper age play a big role here.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-08-2008 05:15 PM  9 years agoPost 1343
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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I don't think the dampers play any significant role here. The biggest thing keeping the blades perpendicular to the main shaft is the force on them due to the high speed of rotation.

If you really want to know how far they deflect under stress, then strap the heli to the work bench and spin it up. Then set it to idle-up and go to full negative pitch. You will be able to see how far they bend. That is much more deflection than you will ever see in the air because the heli will be accelerating with the pitch changes but on the work bench the heli is fixed. As a note, my king2 blades will rise about an inch while at full throttle (100% throttle + 10* pitch) on the bench. Boy that gives that small motor a workout Anyhow when you do it with stock blades you get to see it create a concave disc. In other words the blades come straight out of the blade grips and then progressively bend more and more as you reach the tip. The Mini on the other hand moves like half that much at full throttle. with the added head speed and weight in the blades, the outward force is much greater. Plus the blades are much more stiff.

Anyhow that is how I see things.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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07-08-2008 06:15 PM  9 years agoPost 1344
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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The dampers will play a role in the fore/aft tilt of the rotor disc. From fast forward flight, come to an abrupt halt. The rotor will tilt backwards. The softer the dampers the more the rotor will tilt before transfering the movement to the airframe.

I thought about the bench test. While will show static load it doesn't cover dymamic load, or the addtional clearence lost during the tilt of the rotor. Lets say you are inverted and headed for the ground fast. You want to transition to a rainbow. At the bottom you apply alot of collective to stop the decent along with cyclic to start your rainbow. Now you are fighting the kinetic energy of the falling heli along with the tilt required to start your rainbow.

These two forces combined will close the gap between the main blades and the rotor. How much? Hard to say. In my static bench test, it took 2 inches of travel to get there. The dampers were feeling pretty firm by 1 inch, so I'm guessing its not huge concern. But with the longer blades (tail and main) it could be more off an issue.

At this point I've decided not to worry about it until I start inverted stuff. Maybe Fender could do some field tests for us. Do some inverted pitch pumping and see if the heli explodes

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-08-2008 06:30 PM  9 years agoPost 1345
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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If you really want to know how far they deflect under stress, then strap the heli to the work bench and spin it up. Then set it to idle-up and go to full negative pitch. You will be able to see how far they bend. That is much more deflection than you will ever see in the air because the heli will be accelerating with the pitch changes but on the work bench the heli is fixed.
Exactly.

But loose dampeners will definitely make a difference thats why the 3D guys use stiff dampeners and change them on a regular basis. Push down on a blade grip with no dampeners and tell me if you still believe there is no big role in them. Dougie isn't using the windshield washer hose just because its cheap. I went through the scenario when I switched to CNC head on the king I thought I'd use the old o-rings. I know that little rubber POC looks worthless but its definitely doing more than you think hard banking turns is where I noticed it most cause thats about all I can do. I could hear the King blades slapping the air sounded like a real heli whop,whop,whop. I put the new dampeners in and it was gone.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-08-2008 11:47 PM  9 years agoPost 1346
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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tried to get some autos on video tonight well I did them but I was lucky not to crash Just could not get the flare at the end. Must of just been on last night I was hitting them straight in the box and fairly smooth tonight it was like a smackdown.

Anyone want to see the video of almost crashing a fancy TREX?

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-08-2008 11:50 PM  9 years agoPost 1347
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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You need some ff and into the wind.

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07-08-2008 11:55 PM  9 years agoPost 1348
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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yeah I can see where that would help instead of just relying on the inertia of the blades spooling down. I may be a little to eager dropping it from 5ft and expecting a soft landin what do you think?

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 12:01 AM  9 years agoPost 1349
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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I don't think the dampers play any significant role here
sorry TJ,I have to disagree on this one.there are PLENTY of documented boom strikes directly attributed to soft/worn dampers.the dampers play a very important role in how far the blades will flex in flight.this is why stiff dampers translate directly to quicker cyclic

also TRYAN.....auto videos,lets see um.I havent gotten up the ba##s yet to try any autos,but now you have me thinking

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Mini Titan/SE
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07-09-2008 12:19 AM  9 years agoPost 1350
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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At this point I've decided not to worry about it until I start inverted stuff. Maybe Fender could do some field tests for us. Do some inverted pitch pumping and see if the heli explodes
you know,you could get about 95% of the same effect if you take the heli up high and give it full negative

I just tried again and there is 0 possiblity the main blades on my HBK will contact the tail blades and I have 450 tail blades on it

plus since both sets of blades are moving and the tail blades can pivot,I think a boom strike is more of a worry than a tail blade strike(with stock main blades)too much cyclic throw and worn dampers will definately leave room for a boom strike

I remember having a boom strike on the CP with PLASTIC blades on,man I tore up half the heli

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07-09-2008 12:42 AM  9 years agoPost 1351
TJinGuy

rrProfessor

Socorro, NM - USA

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Yeah well you guys all suck

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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07-09-2008 12:47 AM  9 years agoPost 1352
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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Well heres some sucky autos to prove it(no power drops). Not a good day but any day it comes in in one piece is a good day right?

Watch at YouTube

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 12:54 AM  9 years agoPost 1353
fenderstrat

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Aston,Pa

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man ,no one can ever say you are babying that heli
Yeah well you guys all suck
aaahhhh,you cant win them all

alright time for my before dark flights,be back in a while

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07-09-2008 01:02 AM  9 years agoPost 1354
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I bought it to fly cost is a factor but oh well. I also have an expensive harley I treat it the same way. Its just my mentality I got it from my father he's worse he just bought a brand new silverado pickup and the bed is all scratched up within the first 2 months.

Try the autos fender toolman told me to get a little FF and some headwind to soften the blow makes sense need more air under it to drop it from 5ft its almost no difference from a regular landing at 1ft.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 01:04 AM  9 years agoPost 1355
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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check out the second auto it was the best from 6ft and I ran out of collective. Dont think it could of been any softer that felt like the limit.

flyings over bad autos was it for the day raining again.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 01:32 AM  9 years agoPost 1356
MMike

rrElite Veteran

Holland,Mi-USA

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I flew about 10 batteries through the TREX 450.

I'm GETTING comfortable with nose in and Toolman piros.

I have maybe 60 more flights to really get there.

As I look ahead and dream, what is the next step?

I can't really fly in a circle except on the sim.

I'm guessing that will be next.

Does this sound right?

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07-09-2008 01:48 AM  9 years agoPost 1357
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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nope I can fly in a circle but working on nosein and toolman piros.

I think after orientation its all up to you.

Dont forget takeoff and landings all orientations. Im also doing that I guess my plane days just keeps me moving forward I just have trouble hovering long periods nosein.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 01:50 AM  9 years agoPost 1358
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Tryan, incredible! That's serious. I thought I had some hard landings but I'm not as commited as you. I worry about those spindly little white HBK2 legs everytime I drop it hard. Worse one was last night from 5ft. Ran out of collective way to soon and it bounced back up another foot.

Mike, once you get comfortable doing toolman piros in both directions, small circles, ovals and eights will come easily.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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07-09-2008 01:57 AM  9 years agoPost 1359
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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So you seeing the same thing I am? Past 3 or 4 foot the collective runs out and like toolman told me you need to be going forward and preferably into a head wind. I cringed but I told myself I was gonna figure it out and I think I did their isnt enough air under a 450 from a hover for a more than a couple foot auto. Ill work on the 2 or 3 ft ones tomorrow I can actually get more collective out of those I can only assume Im loosing too much headspeed from 5ft.

(those were all done in normal mode 70% throttle)

No Really I am the club President!!!

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07-09-2008 01:59 AM  9 years agoPost 1360
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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Yeah. Theres a definite transition. Id do circles next. they are easier than you think. Its a mind game. The heli wins most of the time.

Tryan,
Those autos didnt look horrible. If you needed to do it in an actual situation youd probably be okay. Ill see if i can get some autos of my Rappy from 5 feet. Its totally different cause the heli actually sets down gently. I drop the pitch alittle so she drops a little faster but about 2 feet off the ground im using up all the pitch and reserve in the blades. Its a nice set down though. My Mini wont do it that nice. Its alot tougher.

Later
Brad

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