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HelicopterMain Discussion › Dynatron takes out canopy
03-12-2003 10:37 PM  14 years agoPost 1
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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My dynatron running on 24V stuck on yesterday wacking my canopy good, I found the switch contacts welded together, I was mad, and popped an email to Sullivan and got the following response, so be aware of this. This was starting my YS91.

Dear Adam,
I am sorry for the problem with your switch. We have rare problems with the switch welding when it is used on 24 Vts under a heavy load. Helicopters and in-board boats are the wort as they have very high compression and stroke. I will be glad to make you a custom heavy duty switch that will not weld under load. I must hand make it so I will not be able to get it to you until next week. Send me a mailing address and I will get it out to you. I am sorry about the damage to your canopy but I have no way to know how or why the wand came off of the starter. If it is our wand and it was properly attached, it would not come off of the starter. Again, I am sorry for the problem and will make you a new switch, of course at no charge, when I get your address.
Fred Visnaw
Sullivan Products



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03-12-2003 10:50 PM  14 years agoPost 2
irq

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San Diego, CA

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I think that is very fair. It sucks that your canopy got damaged, but this is a hobby, after all, and **** happens.

I think its very nice that he's offering to make you a heavy duty switch.

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03-12-2003 11:08 PM  14 years agoPost 3
mrNoodles

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Borlänge, Sweden

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How did it end up wacking your canopy? On what machine?

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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03-12-2003 11:15 PM  14 years agoPost 4
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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How did it end up wacking your canopy? On what machine?
My xcell CT, as it did not shut off, my KSJ starter once removed from the hex sockets went ballistic under power, try it sometime, you'll see what I meant.



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03-12-2003 11:18 PM  14 years agoPost 5
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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I think that is very fair. It sucks that your canopy got damaged, but this is a hobby, after all, and **** happens.
Mr IRQ I was not saying bad as much as i was warning others that this
could happen, and since sullivan knows of this problem by their own statements I find it adequate at best since they are not recalling or warning of this danger. And do you own a 24V dynatron? If not you have no idea how much torque they have and how dangerous one can be.



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03-12-2003 11:20 PM  14 years agoPost 6
Dazzler

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Ohio

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I guess I'll be sticking with 12volts after reading this, I could definetly see how it could whack the crap out of a canopy under that condition. I read a while back where one guys starter threw the wand right into his brand new 9C, and cracked the display, and broke the Tx, so look at the bright side I guess, at least you didnt whack the Tx. Hope that helps!!! Daz...

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03-12-2003 11:25 PM  14 years agoPost 7
G.Man

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Bristol

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I used to use a dynatron as it was the only starter that would start my ST61ABC back in the 80's...

They have an awesome amount of power, even on 12v, and can seriously yank your wrist if you dont get a firm hold...

I think its good they have offered to make you a new switch free of charge, but also good that you warned others of this potential mishap...

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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03-12-2003 11:29 PM  14 years agoPost 8
sweetP

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Sarasota,Florida

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Heavy duty starter, Heavy duty switch

It seems that Fred is not familiar with heli start wands that fit into the rubber driver insert. The Dynatron starter should come with the "heavy duty" switch since it is a heavy duty starter. Safety note: if your gonna run your starter with the wand in it but not engaged in the start shaft wear eye protection, it is ballistic under power!

What was my tag line? AMA 139721

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03-12-2003 11:29 PM  14 years agoPost 9
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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rckrzy1

Do you use a KSJ 239 start shaft, thats bolts on to the starter shaft?

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.

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03-12-2003 11:31 PM  14 years agoPost 10
sweetP

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Sarasota,Florida

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And leave your 9C in it's case.

What was my tag line? AMA 139721

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03-12-2003 11:41 PM  14 years agoPost 11
Dazzler

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Ohio

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Kinda hard to start a Heli, with the Tx in the case!!!

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03-12-2003 11:47 PM  14 years agoPost 12
irq

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San Diego, CA

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rckrzy1,

I do own a Dynatron and I am sorry if my post seemed to suggest that you were wrong or something like that. I agree with you that Sullivan should put this switch in all of their starters. I guess the reason they don't is because it has to be hand made, but that isn't an excuse to let a known problem continue.

That said, he did mention that it was really rare.

So far I have been using my Dynatron on a 14.4v power supply, and it cranks my YS-91 over no problem... I do, however, make a very conscious effort to avoid flooding the engine (i.e. clip the fuel line after every single flight and unclip it right before starting).

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03-13-2003 02:00 AM  14 years agoPost 13
pilotError

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Long Island, NY

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Sullivan Starters

Hi,

I used to race RC boats, and the Dynatron will melt the switch at 12V as well. It usually happens when your holding that switch on for extended periods of time. Typically you shouldn't keep the starter running for more than 5-10 second bursts. I have one that melted, but didn't stay on.

I think it's sucks, but you really can't complain about the response they gave you. Alot of the boat guys replace the switch with a handle unit and a push-button switch on the handle, I don't remember who produced them, but they were much more comfortable to use and wouldn't rip your arm off if you hydro locked. You might want to check out some of the boat sites to see if you can find one.

Mike...

Good Judgement comes from Experience. Great Judgement comes from Bad Experience.

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03-13-2003 02:18 AM  14 years agoPost 14
Heli-Driver

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Arlington, TX

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Hey Adam,

Sorry to hear you wacked a canopy. Glad to hear he's fixing it for you gratis... and what do you mean flying on a Tuesday? Ain't you supposed to be working?

Which canopy was it? The fade or the new flamer? Tell me it wasn't the new flamer!!!!

PS_ Did you get that 91 fired up? BTW_ I got the pics you sent of the innards... looks like a strong motor.

And you thought that YS80 and my OS91s were hard to start....



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters

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03-13-2003 02:42 AM  14 years agoPost 15
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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Do you use a KSJ 239 start shaft, thats bolts on to the starter shaft?
Yes but I modded mine by fitting a raptor end to it so it could be pressed in the cup. BUT, BUT, I just changed that to the straight on method with the plastic spacer till I get the new switch, incase it welds again.

And to the boat guys, the plastic did not melt or heat in any way, it was short bursts to the starter and the contact points actually spot welded them selves together, IE ARC welded.



Wildcat Fuels

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03-13-2003 02:45 AM  14 years agoPost 16
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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Sorry to hear you wacked a canopy. Glad to hear he's fixing it for you gratis... and what do you mean flying on a Tuesday? Ain't you supposed to be working?VACATION

Which canopy was it? The fade or the new flamer? Tell me it wasn't the new flamer!!!!No, the other fade job

PS_ Did you get that 91 fired up? BTW_ I got the pics you sent of the innards... looks like a strong motor.Yep 1 gallon

And you thought that YS80 and my OS91s were hard to start....
[COLOR=red]91 is easier than 80 right now, but compression comming up with each tank/COLOR]
Raymond



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04-04-2003 09:17 PM  14 years agoPost 17
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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update

Sullivan was quick to acknowledge the problem but as of today I have
NOT gotten a switch from them NOR do they respond to emails now.

I'm losing my support of their product.



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04-04-2003 09:24 PM  14 years agoPost 18
Blair

rrKey Veteran

Republic of​Canuckistan

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rckrazy,

Thanks for the heads up,

I just bought a Dynatron to run on 24v as my old Hobbico welded shut and took out my canopy. I thought the Dynatron was exempt from this problem.

I suspect they aren't responding to you as guys like me will now be requesting heavy duty switches too!

What's their email address?;-)

Blair

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04-05-2003 07:24 PM  14 years agoPost 19
Roamer

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Albuquerque, NM

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I've had my dynatron since 1984. Yes, 1984. It is still running strong. I have had to take the two copper contact pads (aka: the switch) out and buff them up from time to time to clean the corrosion off them. It looks like what happens is that you get some corrosion on the switch contacts which causes a high (relatively speaking, it might only be 1 ohm or so resistance, but this thing is pulling 40 amps. I*I*R = a LOT of power being dissipated with only a little resistance in the switch) resistance in the switch. It then dissipates this power in the switch contact area and can VERY quickly heat the switch up to the melting point of the copper contact. Spot welded switch.

I had this happen to me once a long time ago. Thankfully, I was flying planks at the time, so no damage was done. The swich was very lightly welded together. After disassembling it, I cleaned and then polished the contacts until they shined. I occasionally (once every few years at most) take it apart and clean it up. Since I polished them the first time, the corrosion is always a LOT less than it used to be and I haven't had any trouble with it since.

And it is worth it. The dynatron is a beast. When I first got mine, I was flying with a bunch of guys that had the standard Sullivan starters (there weren't any other starters in the US at that time that I can remember). I can remember more than one occasion at the end of the day and the starter batteries where getting week. The standard starter wouldn't even come close to turning over the 60 engines. I would slap my dynatron onto the same weak battery and it would spin it over faster then their starter would at the begining of the day! I'm sure their battery didn't like it though... It also came in VERY handy while starting my brother's K&B .67 boat engine when it was new. That thing had some REAL compression and a VERY tight sleave. Usually, 12V would do it, but occasionaly we did have to break down and use 24V on it.

I modified mine by adding a 25 ft 12 gauge cord on it so I could connect to my pickup's battery. I put a pig tail on it that had a Light Speed RC car battery connector on it and I use that to power the fuel pump. It works perfectly. I am thinking about making a battery carrier and putting two 8.4V car packs on to make it even more portable.

Needless to say, all in all, the dynatron has been a VERY good buy on my part and I have NO regrets at all on the purchase.

-RRRoamer

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04-05-2003 07:56 PM  14 years agoPost 20
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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I've had my dynatron since 1984. Yes, 1984. It is still running strong. I have had to take the two copper contact pads (aka: the switch) out and buff them up from time to time
Fine and dandy EXCEPT mine was less than 2 weeks old. And npw their lack of response has me , .....well...........pissed.



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HelicopterMain Discussion › Dynatron takes out canopy
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