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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Various newbie questions re: setup/engine bogging
03-10-2003 10:38 PM  14 years agoPost 1
CafeenMan

rrNovice

Central Florida

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Hello. This is my first post here and I'm hoping I can get some good help with my heli.

I have a Raptor .30 with an O.S. .32, a Futaba 8 and Futaba Gy 401. I'm hovering well and can now hover at 90 degrees either side (definitely better left than right though).

I've been playing around with FFF and doing ok. Basically I give a little throttle, push the stick forward and steer it around in a loop around the field and then back it in because there is no way I'm pointing this little monster at me.

First question: The engine bogs down a lot at full throttle. I think I have 9 degrees of pitch, but I'm not sure about that. I leaned the engine a little and it improved, but it's still bad. Is that too much pitch for the engine to handle? Also, I'm using 15% airplane fuel, but I doubt going to 30% is going to make as much difference as needs to be made.

Point 4 on the pitch curve is 75% and point 5 is 85%. It's happy all the way up to about 3 clicks from full throttle/collective.

Second question: What should the settings be for Idle Up? I only need to set one of them up for now, correct?

Anything you can tell me about these things is much appreciated.

Thanks

- Paul

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03-11-2003 01:07 PM  14 years agoPost 2
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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Paul,

With the engine bogging problem, first set the high speed needle correctly to make sure you have all the power available. Do this by flying the heli full power conditions and watch the smoke. If there is a lot of smoke, lean the engine until the smoke starts to get thin, and then stop. If there is little or no smoke full power, richen until there is smoke.

If after setting the carb correctly the engine still boggs under full throttle, then reduce the top end pitch until it doesn't.

Your first Idle up position should be for decending from FF and mild aerobatics such as stall turns and loops. I like to use about 5 degrees of negative pitch on the bottom and about 15-20% throttle full back stick. You have to "play" with the amount of throttle full back stick to maintain rotor speed but not over rev under full back stick decent conditions.

Hope this answers your questions.

SteveH

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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07-28-2003 04:25 PM  14 years agoPost 3
Beadlip

rrNovice

Cincinnati, OH

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Having Similar problem

I have a raptor 30 and have been having a similar problem. My engine (TT39) began boggin down. I check the rotor RPM at a hover and it was a little low, so I decreased the pitch at point 3. Things were a little better, but now the engine would die after about 3 min and smoke profusly. I checked the needle valve and it was still in a very rich position. I tried to lean out and it got worse. I rest the needle to the 1 and 1/2 turns out as stated in the instructions and continued having same problem. Turned out to 2 turns and could hover for a short time. Even richened to the point it was sputtering and same thing. It's behavior is like it is too leen, but I am definatly not.

Have tried diffrent plugs, diffrent gas, checked throttle linkages. Cant figure it out...

Does anyone know any other reason a engine would behave as thought it was lean?

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07-29-2003 03:32 AM  14 years agoPost 4
pistole

rrVeteran

Heli Land ....

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There are only 2 needles on the TTR 39's carburettor to worry about.

The Low Speed Needle needs to be set at 2 1/2 to 3 turns out from 0 (with the throttle arm of the carb at absolute 0 - this is important ).

The High Speed Needle needs to be set at 3 to 3 1/2 turns out from 0.

These are your DEFAULT settings ...... ie , what works well with MOST engines. You can then tune her to adapt to your altitude , weather and fuel.

The 2 most common reasons for bogging (ie , where the engine is not coming onto its power band for some reason or other) are (1) overheating and (2) incorrect needle settings.

You overheat when you needles are too lean. You run too rich when your needles are too rich. Both way , bogging occurs.

So , the answer is to set the default settings for the needles and play with it from there.

Bye.


NB : - If the fuel hose in your tank has deteriorated due to the nitro, that hose will slowly and intermittently collapse (ie , the hose walls will restrict to such an extent that fuel flow is strangled / stopped). Then your engine will stall/ bog / run fast and then die ( your pick ). So keep and eye on that pickup hose.

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07-29-2003 03:58 AM  14 years agoPost 5
Beadlip

rrNovice

Cincinnati, OH

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Almost there!!

Well, the line inside the tank is in terrible shape! Oddly that's what I was doing earlier this evening! I pulled it out and replaced it with some good hose. It was mushy and as if it were not ment to have fuel run threw it. My model now has to be a few inches closer to the gas can, but it's replaced!

I hear 3 turns out from most people. I know 3 to 3 1/2 was where the OS and Enya model airplane engines say to start.

I'm worried that I could have done perminent damage to the engine because I followed the book which says 1.5 turns out. Sounded to lean to me too, but I followed the book. Any easy way to tell?

The Fuel hose made it so I can get a 5 min flight before it happens, where as before it was under 60 seconds. I am starting the engine at 3 turns out (main Neddle) with the throttle in the lowest setting (I assume that's what you were refering to as 0 just as you would set in the throttle curve. Right?)

Any other thoughts? Could I just be too rich since It takes 5 min to happen? Gas lines seem clear, neddle valve does not seem to be moving in or out. Plug maybe? I have a O.S #8 in there now as recommended by http://www.raptortechnique.com. Seems too short. Barely feels like it grabs the threds.

Thanks,

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07-29-2003 04:03 AM  14 years agoPost 6
Corky

rrNovice

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How to hold transmitter

Hi, just started flying coulple days ago I was wondering if it matters if I use my thumbs or my thumb and index finger to control heli

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07-29-2003 04:52 AM  14 years agoPost 7
pistole

rrVeteran

Heli Land ....

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Hi.

The High Speed needle can be set without reference to the throttle arm position. It also has nothing to do with throttle curve on your radio.

Its the Low Speed that must be set with the throttle arm at absolute 0 (this does not equate to when your collective/throttle stick is at the bottom).

That pickup hose must be inspected. It collapses due to the exhaust gas pressure from the muffler which is routed into the tank for pressure.

I don't think any permanent damage has occured ........ just tune them again and see how it pans out. That OS No. 8 is fine. Just also make sure that the gasket under the carb is not leaking and the engine backplate's 4 holding screws are tight and even ( an airleak will play havoc with your settings ). Is your muffler tight ? ..... this could contribute too.

Corky
_______

Hold with the pinch method , ie the two stick are held by pinching the ends with your index and thumb. If you do this , you do not need so much EXPO on your radio ..... if you're a thumb-on-the-stick guy , then dail in more expo.
Cheers.

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07-29-2003 10:19 PM  14 years agoPost 8
Captain Scarlet

rrApprentice

South Wales.

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Re TT39

Er...I have a TT39 in my Raptor 30,and I've looked through the instructions that came with it,and nowhere can I see where it says the low speed needle should be 3 turns out from 0 ; it only says the High Speed default setting is 3 turns from fully in.However I left the low speed where it was when I bought it and adjusted it from there.They both needed only a tiny adjustment and the thing runs superbly,far better than the OS32 it replaced.

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07-30-2003 11:46 PM  14 years agoPost 9
Vash

rrApprentice

Sydney, Australia

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Why must the throttle arm be completely closed when making low speed needle adjustments on the TT39?
i always adjusted it while the engine was idling at 1/4 throttle.

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08-02-2003 05:31 AM  14 years agoPost 10
Beadlip

rrNovice

Cincinnati, OH

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Blade Covering

Corky, It is always better to grip the sticks with the thumb and index finger. You get more precise control of your movements that way. I use my thumbs too often and it shows!! It's a bad habbit to use your thumbs.. A habbit that's hard to break.

As far as the setting the low speed needle, I think he meant at a Lowest throttle you can run at.. Correct me if I'm wrong. The low speed needle is threded into a shaft that moves with the throttle arm on most engines, so I can't see the adjustment being any diffrent at whatever point the arm is when you adjust it.. The TT39 may be diffrent. I don't remember. Only changed it once. Obviously, your throttle needs to be low to notice the diffrences in the LOW speed needle valve. .

NEW QUESTION
My covering started flying apart on my wood blades. I have heard I can replace the covering but I can't find it. It is just regular monocote or is there a heat shrink product I can get? Also, I've heard several ways to balance your blades. I have been balancing blades individualy (so that the CG is the same on each blade) then balancing them as a set as if they were on the head. Is this correct?

Thanks.

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08-02-2003 05:59 AM  14 years agoPost 11
pistole

rrVeteran

Heli Land ....

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This is a quote :-

"TT 36 likes to have the idle mixture screw slightly on the lean side. This gives a very reliable idle, fast transition to hover, and still provides a smooth hover. For a new TT 36 engine, try half to one turn open on the low end mixture screw and 2-1/2 turn open on the main needle. The idle screw should be checked only when the throttle barrel is in the closed position. Otherwise the barrel can move the mixture needle in and out. James has provided a new low speed needle design to TT. It helps get rid of the rich spot at the 1/3 throttle position. All TT 36 engines manufactured after September 1999 has this new needle. Earlier owners in the United States only can obtain the new low speed needle for free by sending a self-addressed-and-self-stamped envelope to "Free TT36H Low Speed Mixture Screw Request, Ace Hobby Distributor, 116W 19th Street, MO 64037. To remove the old low speed mixture screw, you need to unscrew it completely, then remove the main needle and use a sewing needle to push the mixture screw out. The new mixture screw has a slightly different tip shape, but it will be nearly impossible to distinguish the fine differences by looking. The latest news is that TT factory has a new prototype needle that is even better, but it is not available yet. Rumor is they are also working on a new ABC piston material that will make the engine power transition smoother and also produce even more power."


The site is here :-


http://heliproz.com/jwraptor1.html

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08-02-2003 11:22 AM  14 years agoPost 12
lmkjma

rrApprentice

CA

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...

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08-02-2003 02:23 PM  14 years agoPost 13
Beadlip

rrNovice

Cincinnati, OH

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How long will blades last?

lmkjma,

Thanks for the reply. I do have lots of monocote. (I've been flying Airplanes for 12+ years prior to Heli's). So is that ok to do or is it not a safe practice? The only reason I ask is that I have the materials and would like to keep my spare crash kit complete for emergencies!!!

How long should I expect a pair of "Woodies" to last? This set only lasted 1 gallon of gas for me!! Any recomendations when looking for blades? I've never used anything but the woodies that come in crash kits for my raptor 30.

Throttle Settings

Ahh!! I see what you mean now.. The needle will bind if you turn it in too far at a mid throttle and try to lower it.. Thanks for clearing that up...

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08-02-2003 03:01 PM  14 years agoPost 14
lmkjma

rrApprentice

CA

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...

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08-02-2003 03:13 PM  14 years agoPost 15
sled head

rrApprentice

Higgins lake Mi.

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re: engine not running right

Just somthing to look at, but check to see if your cooling fan isn't damaged. ie missing fins , loose ect.

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