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HelicopterOff Topics › if we goto war?
03-13-2003 03:44 AM  14 years agoPost 61
Christian

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Boston, MA

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Someone bring me up to date on this. Why do I keep hearing this is a war for oil? We have put restrictions on Iraq for selling its oil, if we wanted cheaper oil, wouldn't we just lift those rather than going to war with them and spending billions of dollars?

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03-13-2003 05:17 AM  14 years agoPost 62
omurru

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Australia

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Can we talk about something else?

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03-13-2003 05:38 AM  14 years agoPost 63
driftrider

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Cedar Rapids, IA.​(In my own little​world)

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I know saddam is a murderer but why should the iraqi people be bombed because of saddam. If you do find a solution to disarm saddam without hurting the civilian iraqi people then by all means do it
Well, first of all we won't be INTENTIONALLY bombing the Iraqi civilian population, but it is a fact that some Iraqi civilians will die. I'd bet most civilian casualties will be caused because Saddam Hussein INTENTIONALLY places his high-value targets (including military, command and support) right in the middle of highly populated areas, or right next to the type of buildings we want to avoid hitting if possible (like hospitals, schools, churches, etc...). Saddam is a master at using our own sensibilities against us, and he could really care less if we do accidently blow up Iraqi civilians. In fact, he WANTS us too. He knows that such incidents will get spun by our own liberal media such that it looks like we did it on purpose, which is the only way he can win.

As a former U.S. Marine, I know for a fact that WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS. We are not trained or encouraged to kill non-combatants, in fact we are trained to avoid causeing such casualties because it 1.) Strengthens the enemy's will to fight. 2.) It is as morally reprehensible to the average military member as it is to the observer thousands of miles away.

That being said, those high value targets MUST be attacked in order to swiftly destroy an enemy's will or ability to fight. We will do everything in our power to minimise civilian casualties, but we can not and will not let Saddam Hussein shelter himself and his WMD behind unwilling human shields.

And the Iraqis, and the rest of the world as well, that we will do what we have to to provide aid and asylum to the displaced Iraqi civilians and soldiers if they ask for it.
we have to give it time and solve it through diplomatic efforts.....that's the ONLY way...
It should also be obvious by now that Saddam Hussein will not let diplomacy work. We've been asking him to disarm for 12 YEARS, and yet he has lied, manipulated, weaseled and forced his way out of the 1991 peace treaty and at least two resolutions passes by the powerless, useless wastes-of-skin at the UN. They, and the Klintoon administration, have spent 12 years total talking tough and doing nothing to back it up. Why should Saddam take the UN seriously when he knows that he can do whatever he wants and they will do NOTHING. He knows that all he has to do when pressured is throw the UN a bone and they'll be so absorbed with self-gratification at another diplomatic job-well-done that they'll leave Saddam alone. The biggest faults with the UN in regard to Saddam are 1) They actually TRUST him, after years of lies and obstructionism. 2.) In 1991 they pressured President Bush into not entering Baghdad or toppling Saddam, to which the US agreed provided that as part of the peace treaty Saddam allow UNRESTRICTED ACCESS to UN weapons inspectors. It's in the treaty plain as day. Saddam never cooperated with the UN inspection team, nor did he willingly or fully disclose to them the required information on his weapons programs. Then, in 1998, he kicked them out blatantly violating the peace treaty. The UN does nothing 3.) He has continuously violated the peace treaty by firing on US and UK aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones. This in itself is an act of war, with or without a peace treaty in effect. Yet the UN does nothing. 4.) After passing another resolution, Iraq AGREED (I didn't think they had a choice) to allow inspectors back in and to once again provide detailed information and unrestricted access. So far the weapons inspectors have admitted to finding at least one stockpile each of both chemical and biological weapons not reported by Iraq. The UN still does nothing. Saddam refuses to allow its nuclear scientists to be interviewed by the inspectors, stating that it simply could not possibly "force" them to testify without another government official or taperecorder present, even though their statements wouldn't be used against them (the scientists) by the US or UN. The fact is that Saddam ordered them to testify only with a witness or not at all, very likely threatening their lives or those of their families. It's funny how Saddam is suddenly so sensitive to his citizens "rights" when it's in HIS best interest, and yet is merciless and brutal to everyone else who might threaten his regime.

All of these things prove that Saddam isn't going to peacefully disarm or step down. If he had any intention to he'd have done so 12 years ago.

I just don't get how people can NOT see the reasons for going to war with Iraq to overthrow Saddam.

Mike

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03-13-2003 06:45 AM  14 years agoPost 64
Parsifal

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Singapore

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Hahaha... i doubt any army went to war believing they were the Bad guys Mike...

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03-13-2003 04:53 PM  14 years agoPost 65
RCHeliJim

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Orem, UT USA

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raptor_99

I never stated that Osama and Sadam were friends or associates in any way, except the fact that they are both terrorists in their own ways. I understand the differences in the Islam religion, I also understand that the VAST majority of Islam is peaceful. I understand that the VAST majority of muslim people are Suni, and are good people.

As far as Osama and Sadam being enemies, whats the point? They are still both enemies to the free world as well.

As far as oil goes, it may play a part - but it is a small part, not the big thing the media is making it out to be, again the USA only gets 3 percent of its oil from that area of the world, hardly enough to be the main cause of such conflict.

I agree, lets let the inspectors do their jobs, but lets triple the amount of inspectors and give them military escorts with the right to use force wherever the inspectors are blocked from doing their job. Sadam is hiding it all, and the UN lets him get away with his excuses and tactics, even though the treaty states UNLIMITED access, he has limited every move, he is the puppeteer and the UN is his puppet.

I would love more than anything for this to end peacefully, so please dont accuse me of believing otherwise. But, do you really think Sadam will ever allow diplomacy to work? He has proven time and time again that he will not. He must be removed from power, that is the ONLY way to start fixing this mess.

Im off to talk about heli topics now, I will leave this topic to those more eloquent in speach and with more time to debate it. Keep flying!!



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK

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03-14-2003 01:09 AM  14 years agoPost 66
yapjy

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Singapore

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Let's treasure this discussion.
If Bush didn't wage the war in a proper manner without undermining UN, the rest of the world will forever this incident of Uncle Sam unilateral actions. That might be the trigger for economic downturn, depression, proverty...and finally WW3.
Norht Korea, fearing for their safety, lauches nuclear strikes on US troops in Japan and South Korea. US invades North Korea, China sees fire in her backyard, push her army up north and at the same time seize taiwan.
Middle East will still be in turmoil from the war, terrorist are growing in numbers and USA gets terrorist attack so often that the social order begins to decay.
Russia sees the opportunity and reinstall itself as the new super power. She then attacks Europe to rattle her sabre.
Whole world will be in flames....

My fellow r/c heli flier from American...war might be inevitable, but please urge your leader to lead the war in the most careful manner.

But then again...look on the bright side...a short war, saddam is replaced, things get better in the middle east, economy recovers...japan companies recover, cost of raw material lower....and we have cheaper heli to play with. Cheers!

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04-13-2003 01:35 PM  14 years agoPost 67
alfred

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Australia, New South​Wales, Mid North​Coast

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BrianS

Time to check into an asylum

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04-13-2003 03:38 PM  14 years agoPost 68
MPA

rrElite Veteran

Australia

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alfreds words are not to be taken as a reflection of the views of Australians just his own.

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