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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Motor choice and why ?
12-03-2007 02:42 AM  10 years agoPost 1
ozace

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melbourne, australia

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Does anyone know why we run zenoah heli motors in our machines ?
I see the car motors are 2/3 price and more power for a given size, include cooling and a clutch.

I just started with 1/5 scale cars and realised how simple the motor sets are, especially with the clutch already mounted. I am sitting here trying to work out why we bother with the heli motors and all the fuss with clutches and cooling.

I am sure there is a reason, i'd just love to know what it is.
(i believe Vario use car motors in their gassers )

we can never have too many, can we ?

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12-03-2007 12:43 PM  10 years agoPost 2
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Coz the rest are basically converted 90 size glow helis. The Benzine is unusual in that it is a purpose built gasser with a unique engine installation. The 'Comeback' industrial heli from Mr. Schluter also uses the G230RC type of engine but with a oil/grease filled gear transmission instead of the belt/gear Vario transmission.

Paul.

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12-03-2007 05:28 PM  10 years agoPost 3
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Does anyone know why we run zenoah heli motors in our machines ?
Off the top of my head I would say physical size and then power to weight.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-03-2007 09:57 PM  10 years agoPost 4
ozace

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melbourne, australia

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Ace, the point is the car motors are more powerful than the heli motors, weigh only a little more but have built in cooling and clutch. FCM , seems a very plausable answer, if thats the case then its a shame most heli manufacturers never went the extra step to use the more sensible motor choice in my view.

we can never have too many, can we ?

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12-04-2007 01:05 AM  10 years agoPost 5
FCM

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Surrey, England

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The PUH series of engines were designed specifically for manufacturers to use in their 90 size glow helis. This is a good thing actually as without the PUH, the range of gasser helis available would, I think, be lot less then it is now. Fitting the G230RC engine in an existing glow design would be problematical to say the least.

The nice thing about the PUH is that it has a 4 bolt cylinder instead of the 2 bolt on the G230RC engine. I think the weight difference, once you factor in the cooling fan, shroud and mount used on the PUH amounts to very little.

Paul.

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12-04-2007 01:44 AM  10 years agoPost 6
flipped2left

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indianapolis,in.

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Why not perform a comparison? stick your r/c car motor in a heli and record the results!. i have a 46 cc chainsaw eng. i want to use, but will take a while before that will be feasible.

Smile! people will wonder what you're up to!!

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12-05-2007 05:35 PM  10 years agoPost 7
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Fitting the G230RC engine in an existing glow design would be problematical to say the least.
When you consider weight you have to consider the weight of the whole helicopter. Because of the construction of the G230RC the frame has to be much more massive to bridge over the cooling section. You can’t just look at the engine weight itself. It’s the weight of the whole helicopter that really matters.

I don’t think the engineers at Zenoah are idiots. They designed the PUH series specifically for a helicopter. If you think the G230RC is better than use it. But I will bet that anything that has this engine in it will not perform as well as a heli that is designed around the PUH series engines.

I am sure any engine guru could modify the PUH series engine to increase compression to run on high octane gasoline and get back that tiny HP advantage that the RC version has. If you really need HP then go with the 260PUH which has more HP than the G230RC anyway.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-05-2007 08:49 PM  10 years agoPost 8
ozace

rrKey Veteran

melbourne, australia

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Zenoah motors from a popular motor site.
26 puh = $299 and 2.4hp
23 rc = $195 and 2.8hp
26 rc = $215 and 3hp

I know i would rather take the $215 option with more hp.

we can never have too many, can we ?

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12-05-2007 09:21 PM  10 years agoPost 9
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I know i would rather take the $215 option with more hp.
Then do it.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-05-2007 09:31 PM  10 years agoPost 10
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Vairo, ASI, Bergen(I think) use the RC versions of the gas engines and not the PUH layout. The frames are quite a bit different, but they are out there......and they are heavier.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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12-06-2007 12:14 AM  10 years agoPost 11
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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Don't believe the power # you read,the #'s are very very close but at different rpm's. the rc motors have higher exhaust timing so the peak # may be a little higher but it will depend on where the motor is reving to. Example if the motor is making it's best power at 13,500 but you are set at12,000 max it won't matter what makeing more power cause you ain't usin it!!the clutch is not is not to precision like so I am not sure how well it would work. Main atvantage is the full circle crank better inertia and better counterweighted for a smoother running engine. hope this helps. Peace, Toxic Al

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12-06-2007 12:41 AM  10 years agoPost 12
FCM

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Surrey, England

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When you consider the total weight of gasser helicopters you also have to take into account their size. The Benzine and Airstar gasser helis are larger than the PUH machines. The Condor is the exception here as it can swing the long blades but of course, this will narrow the weight gap between it and the large gassers.

Just so you know, the G230RC engine runs best using regular gas not high octain gas just like the PUH does.

The G230RC also has by far the best cooling fan/shround in the business - very important for hauling heavy loads in hot and humid conditions

Of possible interest is Tom Fiddler's experience when he first bought his Vario Acrobatic and compared the weight of the G230RC engine to his P gasser engine/fan and shround. The G230RC was lighter in weight by a small amount.

Paul.

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12-06-2007 04:34 AM  10 years agoPost 13
ozace

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melbourne, australia

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Al, i was hopeful that someone like you would chime in. So in effect there is little difference ?

The more i look into the car scene the more confused i become.
After market motors are even cheaper than the zenoah's. No that this is about price so much, just the seemingly simplicity of the rc version of these motors.

Its warm down here now and the car motor doesnt get real hot in use with the inbuilt cooling and no airflow. The higher revs would also make gasser helis easier to gear i would have thought.

Paul, thanks for the input, just seems to make sense to me. It would be nice if Tom popped in to add his experience.

we can never have too many, can we ?

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12-06-2007 01:43 PM  10 years agoPost 14
FCM

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Surrey, England

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You're welcome.

The G230RC doesn't have to be revved too high to produce good power. I have run mine down to 10,500 with good results. The big difference I found was using a large volume muffler and Vario velocity stack and no filter. This allows the engine to breath better and gives more power right across the heli rev range.

The 260 is a torque monster but at a lower RPM than this. I have gone back to the 230 size now as it is smoother, produces enough power for my needs and the gear train lasts longer.

Paul.

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12-06-2007 05:52 PM  10 years agoPost 15
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Example if the motor is making it's best power at 13,500 but you are set at12,000 max it won't matter what makeing more power cause you ain't usin it!!
Details, details, details ...
The G230RC was lighter in weight by a small amount.
You will put way more weight into the frame structure because of the size of the engine and how it mounts than you will gain by using this motor. A higher cooling capacity is a great idea except that it directs more HP to the fan and less to the heli rotors. Without enormous scientific testing it is hard to prove which is the winner.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-06-2007 08:10 PM  10 years agoPost 16
Toxic Al

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chuluota, Fl

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Ace, you sure like to quote people. Look it is as simple as this the puh was derived from the rc version and was taylored to the older 230, consider it an upgrade. both engines work very well and each have atvantages and draw backs. If your chopper of choice uses the puh, use the puh. if it requires the rc there you go use the rc. you will like either engine. Peace, Toxic Al

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12-07-2007 12:35 AM  10 years agoPost 17
FCM

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Surrey, England

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A higher cooling capacity is a great idea except that it directs more HP to the fan and less to the heli rotors.
What you say is correct but G230RC engine users don't generally complain about a lack in power and better cooling in hot climates can allow the engine to produce more power although I imagine it is not needed in temperate climates.
You will put way more weight into the frame structure because of the size of the engine and how it mounts than you will gain by using this motor.
Maybe, but a purpose designed heli is not too much heavier and the Benzine is no sloutch when it comes to hauling loads.

Paul.

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12-07-2007 01:04 AM  10 years agoPost 18
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Precisely

Its a workhorse, not a 3D machine. Any helicopter will not be lacking in power if you are using it for utility work. Try to 3D that heli and you will hear the waaah waaah bogs instantly. I'll do a search and if I can find that Benzin video doing 3d I'll post a link (I saw it some time ago). Here it is:

http://www.airstarintl.com/Videos/Mongoose.wmv

Watch that and then watch the Predator and Spectra-g videos here and see what I mean.

But don't get bent out of shape, its for a specific duty and each excel in their own way. If you try to 3D the 230rc motor the puh series will perform better.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4142 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3210 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1440 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 207 flts

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12-07-2007 02:49 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Toxic Al

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chuluota, Fl

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Sorry to say your wrong Raja, the motor has nothing to do with it.the design of the chopper has everything to do with it. If the chopper is not set up for 3d by design or it has an inferior design then I don't care if you put kx500 motor in it you are defeating the purpose if it's intention. Both motors are awesome and if I built a 3d ship around the rc you would see what i mean. Toxic Al

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12-07-2007 02:15 PM  10 years agoPost 20
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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OK

The the answer is there is no good 3D ship designed for the 230RC. The closest one is the vario acrobatic, but its still heavier than the Predator/Spectra and the performance is not as breathtaking.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4142 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3210 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1440 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 207 flts

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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Motor choice and why ?
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