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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› Have I got this right?
12-02-2007 03:11 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Hi all,

Having just completed my Swift and finished setting everything up, I'm in a bit of a quandry. I am using a 4 cell lipo (3700Mah) coupled to a CC60amp esc and a century 3D extra motor (1536kv) with a 9 tooth pinion. I am running the esc in govenor mode and have programmed the "throttle curves as follows: "Normal" 0 40 80 80 80 and "Idle up 1" 80 80 80 80 80. Am I right in thinking that this will give 80% of the available head speed.
Given the the max head speed with this combination will give a max head speed of 1705 rpm @ 80% efficiency I was wondering if I have missed any thing. Perhaps my target head speed will be a little low? Obviously I have a small amount of power in reserve to allow for extra loads on the disc, but I can always adjust a little further if I need to. I don't fly 3D (Too expensive) so additional loads shouldn't be overly excessive.
Any and all additional information will be welcomed.

ATB

Paul.

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-02-2007 04:15 PM  9 years agoPost 2
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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CC has a really goofy way of setting up the governor. The problem is that the % throttle curve does not relate to % headspeed. The only way is to use a tachometer to get the correct throttle curve for that headspeed that you want.

... BTS

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12-02-2007 09:20 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Sussed it! I just finished reading a PM I had from Coolice regarding setup of my combo and finally understood it. Starting with a soft start and ramping up nice and steady I'm getting plenty of head speed without putting too much load on the esc, so that stays nice and cool. The bloody motor gets stinking hot though, you were dead right about that Coolice! I have ordered the heatsink to help out in that department, (it caught me out when the back of my hand caught it and I almost swore). It looks like I'm going to be very happy with this little heli, so much so I am considering selling my blinged Raptor. The Swift will make a very nice stable mate to my Predator which flys oh so smoothly.

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-02-2007 09:32 PM  9 years agoPost 4
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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BTS is right. Setting up the CC governor is truly an adventure. As BTS said, and as the CC reps told me, the governor setting (number) does not relate to anything. You could end up flying at 20%. CC claims that this is perfectly acceptable. Also, in some cases, you may need to move to governor low. This is what was explained to me when I was setting up my Phoenix 80.

BTW, you really have to have the Castle Link so that you can set up the ESC using your computer. I tried setting mine up with the throttle and it took waaayyy too long. I bought Castle Link after my first iteration with the setup program.

As it happened, I (along with the guys from CC) gave up trying to use the governor on my Phoenix 80. We tried everything and spent about four hours fiddling with the setup, but we couldn't keep the speed constant without oscillations.

I could have used the throttle settings on the Phoenix 80, as these worked fine, but I bought the Phoenix for the governor. I bought a Kontronic Jazz ESC to replace it. It only took about 10 minutes to get the governor set up.

Sorry to relate my negative experience. You may have success in getting yours set up. There are a lot of guys who have been successful in setting up the governor. It's a hit or miss thing.

Good luck to you and keep 'em flying.
LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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12-02-2007 09:40 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Thanks for your input mate. Don't sweat about the negative input, we can all learn something from other peoples experiences, after all isn't that what forums like this are all about. I have yet to carry out a proper test flight on this machine, I was hoping to go out today but the weather was shall we say.......Crap! I'm looking forwards to next weekend and hopefully giving it a whirl then, failing that we have an indoor meet next Sunday so it could always have an indoor hop in the hall just to finalise settings.

Cheers.

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-03-2007 06:30 PM  9 years agoPost 6
coolice

rrKey Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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Hey Paul,

Ah I have already helped with some pointers on your CC setup, I'm old and forget

Yes, the poor 3D Xtra motor does get a tad hot but seems to cope ok, the addition of the heatsink will help no end and I fitted one from the start with my original Swift setup.

Again with the CC60 I flew mine in govenor mode, then as you mention I have the throttle curve in normal mode ramping up very steeply to get the motor/esc combo to 80% well before hover point.
Your basically flying on pitch curves only which is the ideal scenario with helis as the ESC is not having to dissipate to much extra power and hence keeps cooler.
The slow spoolup setting deals with controlling the rotor ramp speed on start up, so there is no worry of stripping gears etc.

As LJS mentioned Castle do say you can use the throttle curve to set the desired rotor RPM on the model and I did enquire about the warrenty if this facility is used and it goes pear shaped, eg. over heating the ESC. However I dont suggest this route personally but thats my opinion.

Ideally you need to set the controller to 80% power and tacho the rotor rpm, if you need more or less RPM then alter the gearing (motor pinion) to obtain the rotor speed needed.

Definetly the Castle Link software is a good thing to have, I and a few club mates brought one between us to use.
With this setup is easier and also you can update the ESC's firmware which has changed into a more dependable and reliable version now.

Keep us informed of how you get on as I am sure you are right in your thoughts and will enjoy flying your Swift as I certainly do.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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12-03-2007 07:05 PM  9 years agoPost 7
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Yes you did Ian, and by the way mate I think maybe I have a couple of years on you. Your help has proved to be invaluable, I have basically mirrored your settings. When I initially set up the esc I was looking at 80% being 80% stick movement so it came as quite a surprise when the esc showed a solid red light (full throttle) at half stick in govenor mode. LJS hit the nail on the head when he stated that the CC programming was an adventure. I'm hoping that tomorrows post will see a shiny purple heatsink hitting my doorstep, I placed the order online at Century UK yesterday. Despite what you said in your message, it still came as something of a surprise that the motor was as hot as it was. However the esc remained remarkably cool, I guess this demonstrates that the CC60 is very capable of handling the current drain well within its capacity. All we need now is a descent day for a good shakedown. I will keep you posted on the progress. You will always be made welcome as a guest pilot on our field, as you said you are not too far away and a change of scenery can be a good thing. We have a superb lump of sky to play in.

Atb

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-04-2007 09:59 AM  9 years agoPost 8
coolice

rrKey Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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Hey Paul,

In the new year mate I will take you up on the offer of a visit to your field, as hopefully then we shall have some half decent weather!
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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12-09-2007 09:07 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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An update.

I flew the Swift today. It felt very solid and didn't require any trim changes. The GY 401 held the tail beautifully. Although I appear to have a small problem with the esc. On the first attempt the head speed was too low (underload, I have only spooled the head minus blades prior to today). I increased the values on the TX to achieve the desired head speed and again spooled up. As exspected it lifted at half stick with a good dose of head speed, I don't know the speed because I loaned out my tacho and haven't seen it since, suffice to say there was plenty of headspeed. The motor didn't sound laboured and the heli hovered great...........then it smoked the esc for no apparent reason. I'm going to contact the shop where it came from to see if they can do anything about it. I feel just a little dissapointed about this but hopefully it can be sorted soon.

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-09-2007 10:50 PM  9 years agoPost 10
coolice

rrKey Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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Hey,

Oh cr@p, I'm sorry to hear you were on the right track and then it went pear shaped.

When you say you didn't have the right head speed to start with and then upped the throttle percentage what were you at and then what did you take it up to?

I'm just trying to work out now what could have possably gone wrong.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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12-10-2007 07:09 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Hi Ian, basically mate I mirrored your figures from your pm. Without the blades the head hummed like a turbine. I upped my "normal" curve to 0 60 80 90 100 so the head speed was well up before any pitch was added. the pitch curve was as follows -5, 0, +5, +8, +10 across the curve. I can't for the life of me see what went wrong. As the head speed came up I still had zero pitch so in theory still no significant load. Maybe just a dodgy esc. Whan it popped the positive batt wire came away completley and the heat shrink obviously melted. Looking on the pcb it's clear that 4 out of the 11 mini ic's are out of alignment and dont appear to be soldered to the board at all, this could be down to the heat but I'm in a confused state and maybe looking for reasons

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-10-2007 08:28 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Another update. It looks like the motor has been at fault. Instead of being nice and free it feels very tight when removed from the model, almost as though it's got compression. I'm getting a bit fed up now, what set off as an inexpensive heli is now starting to cost a lot more than I would have liked. Ho hum I'll order another motor and see what happens. I replaced the esc today, got it all connected up and it wouldn't start the motor only juddering on startup. I hope it hasn't damaged this esc too.

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-10-2007 08:36 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Get a Century 550+ motor and a 9tooth pinion. You will not be unhappy....Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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12-10-2007 09:09 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Get a Century 550+ motor and a 9tooth pinion. You will not be unhappy....Ron

Fully Blinged Swift , Logo 500 3D and soon 3DMPXL-E Flyin Firefighter

Thanks for the info Ron, I've already placed the order for a new motor. Hopefully it will be here Wednesday and I'll find out whether or not the new esc has suffered because of the duff one. I think it should be ok. It's rated at 75 amp continuous and 100 amp for 15 seconds and I didn't allow it to try to run more than a second or two. Fingers crossed it will be ok.

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-11-2007 09:42 AM  9 years agoPost 15
coolice

rrKey Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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Hey Paul,

Ah, you have found something that caused the problem then which in someways is good but bad as there is an issue.
Was this model purchased new or second hand? Obviously new there is a warrenty on the items at fault.

I and many others did not have problems with the 3D Xtra motor, it's not impossible to get a bad one built though and it seems you may have unfortunately got it. For that I can onyl appologise, luckily though your model didn't sustain any damage other than the electrics you mention.

The 550+ is a very good motor as Ron mentions, I have flown a friends Swift running 4s on this motor and it has plenty of power. Much more than the Xtra, but of course it should have as it's designed for the more experienced flier.
When it comes to pinions I tried a few on my friends as the recomended 9 tooth didn't make the model feel locked in. In the end we settled on an 11 tooth pinion, which at 80% efficiency gives 1994 according to my calculations.
To start with go for the 10 tooth, give the model a fly then as you progress go up to the 11 tooth.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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12-11-2007 04:59 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Thanks for the reply Ian. The model was bought new and has been assembled very carefully and set up as precisley as I can. I take great pride with my setups as I like my models to be as smooth and predictable as possible. In fact I would confidently hand any of my heli's to a novice and feel confident that they would be able to handle them on reduced rates. I have ordered a replacement 3D Xtra motor to replace the faulty unit, as the cost is relativly small I can stand the cost. You, Ian by the way mate dont need to apologise to me regarding the faulty unit, it's hardly your fault is it. These things happen mate and I just put it down to experience. I may experiment with the 550 outrunner at a future date. For now I'm awaiting delivery of the new 3D Xtra and praying that the new esc hasn't sustained any damage prior to me finding the fault on the motor.

As always I will post updates as and when I can. Hopefully any further news will be positive.

Cheers for now chaps

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-12-2007 06:52 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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Looking good. I arrived home from work this evening to find that the replacement motor had arrived. Within about 30 minutes it was fitted along with the heatsink and pinion from the original motor. Throttle curve checked and direction of rotation checked, all ok. Right so it's dark now, but that didn't stop me, out into the garden went the Swift and I. Rotors spooled up no problem, it looks like the esc has been saved after discovering the faulty motor on Monday. Huge head speed 1/4 throttle zero pitch and she'd humming like a turbine, great stuff. Ok push the throttle to 50% (80% on the curve) and away we go, she's up. I can't believe it she's just sat there, tail locked in (ish), the gyro needs a tweak, but she's hovering steady and just waiting to be told what to do next. The cyclics are positive without being twitchy but I do have a pair of T.T, greenies fitted. Now I'm really looking forwards to a day when I can spend more time just fettling the settings. I'm happy to report that I can now have confidence it this heli and look forwards to exploring it's abilities.

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-13-2007 11:42 PM  9 years agoPost 18
coolice

rrKey Veteran

Northamptonshire, England

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Hey Paul,

Sounds like you might be on the road to getting it all sorted out once and for all so you can enjoy the model.

Let us know how you get on with more stick time on the machine, like me we are all praying for some half decent weather this weekend
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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12-15-2007 02:48 PM  9 years agoPost 19
Noddy-01

rrApprentice

Doncaster/England and Bangkok

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I,m happy to report, at last we have success with the Swift. I had 3 flights with it today using the stock 3D Xtra motor and pinion (8 tooth, not as I originally thought 9). Govenor running at 80% and still no idea of the head speed, however there seems to be plenty and what a great little heli it is. Up to now I have never built a heli that requires absolutley zero trim change, this one is the first. As I said in an earlier post I'm running T.T. green paddles and stock wooden blades. The model just feels so locked in with very progressive controls, responsive but not twitchy. The tail feels good and positive and the GY401 does a great job with its 9254 servo. I was surprised to find no adjustment was required to the servo position and the switch over from rate mode to HH mode showed no signs of drift and pirouetting when the switch was flipped. Hovering it showed a great deal of stability, whilst in FF flight it showed no signs of pitching. Loops and rolls easy with no drama. What a fantastic little heli this is in standard mode. My only critique would be the flight time . 9 minutes is all I get, but I guess that's a good trade off with this level of performance, you can't have it all can you. It looks like Noddy's going to have to save his pennies and buy more batteries. All in all I'm very happy with it now depsite earlier minor issues and I would recomend this model to anybody looking for a value for money, well thought out and well made helicopter.

Paul

Little boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!

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12-17-2007 02:03 AM  9 years agoPost 20
Wheelhaus

rrVeteran

Denver

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the pitch curve was as follows -5, 0, +5, +8, +10 across the curve.
Glad to hear you got it sorted out. Sometimes electronics just don't want to cooperate...

I'm curious, why are you're using an asymmetrical pitch curve? What are your intentions, just upright scale flight or would you like to get into aerobatics?

The reason I ask is this type of pitch curve will only work for upright, scale flight. I highly recommend a symmetrical pitch curve, which works for scale or aerobatics. Set it for -10°, 0°, +10°. If you are flying normal throttle curves and want ti "kill the throttle" with low stick, then set your normal mode pitch curve to -5°, 0°, +10°. This way, when you switch between normal, Idle 1 and 2, The pitch range from mid stick up won't make the heli suddenly drop or jump.

Anyways, if you have absolutely no intention of ever trying aerobatics, then keep on using your pitch curve as-is, it will increase resolution for your positive pitch range for smoother flight, which is ideal for scale (realistic) flight style.

..........
Dave

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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
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