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HelicopterOff Topics › The Movie Sicko by Michael Moore
12-02-2007 05:36 AM  10 years agoPost 21
dick smith

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perth

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you lot should have compulsive voting,ie ,you have to vote... that wood change the landscape,,,,

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12-02-2007 05:40 AM  10 years agoPost 22
nitro fun

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Oc ca

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doctors are like any other trade. you have the top 10% that are very very good, then the rest are hacks. and dont know how to trouble shoot anything.

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12-02-2007 05:58 AM  10 years agoPost 23
jimco

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east texas

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Nitro: The main problem in small towns is that the hospitals have no staff Doctors, manning the ER. Most of em are what we call Rent A Docs.
We get out of town interns that want some extra money, to man the ERs. Not a good combo for a trauma center environment.
Livingston Memorial , has the reputation as the perfect place to go to die. Really sad, but an ambulance cannot take you to another hospital , from this county. Must stop at Livingston.
I guess, if you survive that stop, then you can be transferred.
Life Flight is the only direct route to Herman, in Houston. And that is only from the scene of major accident. If you are transportable by ambulance, and not totally critical, you go to Livingson first.
Whats sad, The Memorial System in Lufkin, owns this one in Livingston, and the difference is day and nite.
Lufkin, you can survive, Livingston, you just might die. And thats a sad. Such a difference in the same system.
We have a very nice ,new hospital, and its useless.

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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12-02-2007 06:18 AM  10 years agoPost 24
Jimmi

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Southern Ca. U.S.A.

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Thats why I say, never say NEVER!!!!! Great outcome on your story jimco, and I'm glad the wifey is doing well. Jimmi

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing

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12-02-2007 06:20 AM  10 years agoPost 25
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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jimco

Sorry to hear about your wife...
but an ambulance cannot take you to another hospital , from this county. Must stop at Livingston
Do you really think any government system would not do close to the same?

Government agencies have a history of screwing up all kinds of things. The real bitch is you have little recourse in that event.

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12-02-2007 06:31 AM  10 years agoPost 26
Gearhead

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Vt

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my very good friend's 5 y o child was hurt in a 4-wheeler accident, he had 1 hole and a long crack in his skull,,

the E-room Dr here in my home town told the mother that "he could do it" he could do the operation, and he went to tell the nurses to start the process of getting the OR ready, the mother grabbed the Dr's arm and just about pulled him to the floor, she told this Dr that he was not to touch her son, she told him to stabilize her son and fly him to New Hampshire,,

the boy needed bone removed from the top of his skull, the Dr in New Hampshire said it was to big of an operation for just a simple ER Dr,,

the boy is now 17,, I have always wondered what would have hapen if she let the ER Dr operate..

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-02-2007 06:37 AM  10 years agoPost 27
Rob_T

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..

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Jimco, very sorry to hear about your wife. That must have been a very tough time for you.

As no one else has, I'll point to the elephant in the room. Maybe the first doctor allowed the fact that there was no insurance influence his treatment/advice. A national health system takes away this problem.

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12-02-2007 07:08 AM  10 years agoPost 28
Brovic777

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Los Angeles, CA

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Our health care system is sooo messed up that unfornutatily Jimco almost lost a love one. Sorry to hear about what happen Jimco.

My dad also almost got operated on the wrong knee for knee replacement surgury. He stopped the guys shaving his wrong leg before he went under for surgery.

Problem today is the healthcare industry has turned into a Mega-Billions dollar industry, run by private insurance companies out to rip off all the American people. Many doctors are in it for the money, and treat patients as if they were animals. When I go to my clinic, the doctor rushes to diagnosed whatever problem I might have, and is in and out in 2 mintues. They try to see as many patients they can in on day to make the most money billing the insurance companies.

My wife has had bad headaches for like 5 months now, and can't even get a cat scan because our POS Blue Cross won't cover it. Why the hell we pay for medical insurance that won't even cover us. Its insane.

Michael More should get an Academy Award for best documentary for showing Sicko. He reveals the truth of our messed up health system.

Sadly, Republican's do not want universal health care, and don't care squat who dies because it will be thier tax dollars paying for it. Well guess what, I pay taxes to, and i'm willing to give up 2% extra for the well being all off who step foot in our nation.

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12-02-2007 07:30 AM  10 years agoPost 29
Gearhead

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Vt

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Jimco, yes,,, I too am very sorry to hear about your wife, I hope things go well for her !!

""He stopped the guys shaving his wrong leg before he went under for surgery""

brovic777,, didn't you here, a few years ago, some Dr did remove the wrong foot on some poor guy..

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-02-2007 07:59 AM  10 years agoPost 30
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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brovic777,, didn't you here, a few years ago, some Dr did remove the wrong foot on some poor guy..
Yeah, it happened at University hospital in Tampa.

Here is a story about the VA refusing treatment for a guy:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/3/...fuses_treatment

Here is a story about the VA cutting the wrong nut off a guy:
http://ballyblog.wordpress.com/2007...sticle-removed/

If you think that the government is not going to make mistakes.....Well you should listen to your own posts where you claim the the government is corupt, in it for the money...I would think you guys would not want the Government in charge of your health.

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12-02-2007 01:47 PM  10 years agoPost 31
wlfk

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uk

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There are any number of stories about the wrong bits being cut off. One I heard was that back in the Soviet days, a member of the Politburo got a leading surgeon to take out his bad kidney. Unfortunately they got a medical student to mark up the body, and ended up taking out the only good kidney. And this was in the days before dialysis so the patient died. Nothing new under the sun.

Personally I prefer state-funded healthcare. It isn't perfect, but at least there are no insurance companies involved and nobody sends you a bill.

Typical examples: the UK has a relatively low rate of prescribing antibiotics, which is good because over-prescribing antibiotics leads to drug-resistant strains becoming prevalent. In France, when a patient/customer asks a doctor for antibiotics, it's difficult for the doctor to say 'no' because (s)he'll lose business.

If you bring a child with diarrhoea and vomiting into an UK A&E, then unless the child is at Death's door you're likely to go home with oral rehydration salts, which cost about a dollar. In the US you're much more likely to have the child given IV rehydration therapy, which is both riskier and which also involves an expensive inpatient stay.

People grumble about the NHS (National Health Service) no end, but all in all we spend 50% of what the US spends, and have a better life expectancy (not that this has much to do with healthcare). And there are times when I've had to see a doctor when, if I had to pay for treatment, I would have needed to make an appointment with my bank manager first.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive

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12-02-2007 02:06 PM  10 years agoPost 32
MasterCrasher

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Not sure.

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Jimco I'm glad you wife is doing well and your experience must have been horrible. I'm just wondering what you outcome would have been if you had been in another country?

The thing I don't understand is this. We all agree our system needs some serious help but why do so many want to go to a system that is been proven not to work in any other country?

Can someone list the reasons why health care is so expensive?

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12-02-2007 02:27 PM  10 years agoPost 33
Mutt

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M ca usa

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I will stick with my medical insurance. I do not want any goverment operated medical crap. I have some friends in canada an listen to what they go through no thanks aitn for me. Buying medical insurance aint that bad. We have it for my entire family and for the peace of mind it provides is well worth it. My wife had her apendex sp) rupture on her she spent 10 days in the hospital for that total cost to us 100 bucks. My time in the hospital total cost 100 bucks spent 29 days in there. I will never be without insurance.

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12-02-2007 02:50 PM  10 years agoPost 34
wlfk

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uk

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Reasons healthcare is so expensive:
Regulation - it costs zillions of dollars to develop a new drug. My dog gets wonder-drugs that we're unlikely ever to be able to give to people, because of the regulatory burdens.

Labour - even in a nursing home where minimal medical care is provided, the staff : patient ratio is generally > 1:1 by the time you've counted all the cleaners, cooks, and care workers. It isn't any cheaper to care for sick people, and many healthcare workers are extremely accomplished people who could make a good living if they worked in other disciplines - and I'm not just referring to doctors*.

Standards - in a hospital where I used to work, the equipment all had price tags on it. For the price of the equipment round every intensive care bed, you could buy a modest house in my area. Often the equipment is pretty simple but has to be built to very exacting standards. And you need to get a disclaimer from the manufacturer of every microchip you use.

Lawyers - and often rightly so. If someone screws up and as a result, a patient needs nursing care for the rest of their days, the nursing care might easily cost millions of dollars/pounds. Why shouldn't they and their relatives put in a claim?

Demands - sometimes I think healthcare is like a whole new arms race. If you develop a lifesaving drug, it often seems there is a moral imperative to give it to any patient whom it could help. What if it cost $10,000, $100,000, $10,000,000 dollars - or more? I heard of a kid round here who had about $5,000,000 spent on him before he died. I think there's a good argument it could have been better spent on the local park, or schools. But I'd find it very difficult to look his parents in the eye and argue this.

Some of the new drugs are so expensive individual patients can easily account for substantial proportions of a local drugs budget. Some of the new anti-arthritis drugs cost about $40-60 thousand a year.

Defensive medicine - say a patient comes in with symptoms of disease X. Disease X affects only 1/100,000 people a year and causes common symptoms, so you're pretty sure the patient doesn't have it. But in this day and age you have to test just the same. As an example, last I heard there are about 300 cases of Lyme disease each year in the UK. A friend who is a neurologist administers about 200 tests a year. They may be cheaper now, but the kits used to cost about $1000 a pop.

K

* I often think the biggest cost of healthcare is not in paying the staff, but in the opportunity cost of employing gifted individuals who might otherwise be very profitably employed in other roles.

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive

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12-02-2007 03:28 PM  10 years agoPost 35
TachyonDriver

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Chipping, Lancs, UK

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Jesus H, Jimco. That was one scary story! Good to hear that sticking to your guns allowed your better half to pull through.
Well guess what, I pay taxes to, and i'm willing to give up 2% extra for the well being all off who step foot in our nation.
EVEN IF they are illegals??

Our NHS still gives the patient bills sometimes - especially if you need an ambulance ride....

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!

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12-02-2007 03:30 PM  10 years agoPost 36
kryptik

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South Carolina

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Agree...and disagree...

I'll agree with you that our health care system may be heading down a bumpy road, however maybe I'm just blind to it at this point. We have had some major Hospital visits over the last five years, between my wife and I, including the birth of our first child. We all go ANYTIME we are sick at all, and have both had outpatient surgeries performed during that time period. I have also had a couple of catscans for occasional headaches, as had my infant daughter when she took a spill from a jogging stroller. Nove of us are chronically sick per say, just what I would call a typical American family. Total out of pocket medical expensives over last five years period...$250 to $500 dollars. Granted my company pays my premiums for me, and I have no deductible. In-Network is 100% coverage, out of network is 85% after $300 deductible. I can choose to see any doctor I want anywhere. No HMO restrictions of the sort. I guess my point to all this is you usually hear nothing but negativity towards health care in this country. I, and this is only my experience, have no real issues...because I am properly positioned to make it work for me. I do understand that not everone may be as fortunate in that respect, and my heart goes out to them. I do not think that it is a completely broken system in need of a complete overhaul though. I don't want people mucking around with my privilege just because they don't have it. I say get a better job and buy better insurance. I personally don't feel like health care is a right of every American. I'm really starting to grow weary of this entitlement society being shaped by Democrats to insure that they will have a voting base for years to come. I personally feel like they are the ones driving the American dream right into the crapper, which is ironic, because they are the very ones living the American dream, that fat Sicko Michael Moore included.

BTW - I am extremely middle class, for right now, and just under 10 years ago I was broke and sleeping on a friend's couch as I had no money, job, or home. So don't think I'm some pretentious snob with gobs of money. Just a typical, middle class, family man.

If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't ...

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12-02-2007 04:00 PM  10 years agoPost 37
Wildcat Fuels

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Lexington, Ky

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Jimco,

I am so happy your wife is ok. That is terrible, I can't imagine. I have lost both my parents and we have gone through watching my wifes parents die in one year, and I still can't imagine what you went through. My wife has suffered fro 4 years with chronic pain after a car accident. She has good days and bad days and days that are pretty bad. We have been through about every proceedure known to man including the docs talking about cutting out her jaw and replacing it with cow bone. She underwent facial pain injections, back pain injections, chiropractic care, dental, ENT visits, CAT Scans, MRI's, bla bla bla...and numerous er visits. Finally my wife got tired of the idiots and took her care into her own hands. She is a brilliant nurse and has been for 20 years. She pretty much decided on her own treatment and with the help of online research decided to get braces to realign her jaw. The barces come off in a month, on for a year, she now has better than 90% recovery. She still has pain at times but nothing like before. I said allthat to say this, she was a nurse working for the hospital that insured her and provided the care. You would think she would get the best care possible, not so. It is a managed health care system by a University. They put you through a ridiculous number of proceedures before they will send you where you should go for treatment....they really don't want to deal with the difficult things. Now, if it hadn't been for my wifes training they probably would have splayed her open like a turkey for practice. She left that job and now we have a different insurance plan and the doctors are great! It all comes down to the type of care....University "Government Plan" where they get paid regardless and are just puttin in time or private practice Physicains who's lively hood depends on good outcomes. I realy don't want Hillary or her appointees deciding if to pull the plug or if I am worth saving or if that would cost too much to "The System"....and trust me they will have a panel that decides those things....how do I know...look at the Terri Shiavo case. Agree or disagree to her care it should not have been decided by a judge to starve her to death...we treat dogs better.

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12-02-2007 04:01 PM  10 years agoPost 38
MattJen

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UK

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i have read some of the posts,

i dont know who this MM is, but i have to say coming from the UK where health care is provided by the state i will say it is not be all and end all.

In the UK we have the same probs as what i have read from your posts.
By having a state system it has created a 2 tear system, if you can afford to go Private you get treated much better,by the same doctors,
a good example of this is my son has Autism, to get him assessed by the child paedeatrician was an 8 month waiting list, if i paid private the same doctor could see me the following week..

My father in law went into hospital on the monday complaining of severe stomach upsets, he would not eat anything, the nurses and doctors are so over streched over here most work 14hrs plus a day, well my father in law was sent home and was told it was all in his head after a few tests were done, later that night his stomach perforated and he was rushed back to hospital and rushed down for emergency surgury, he never regained conciousness.. in the end we switched off the life support machine and i watched all the stats flat line, something i will never forget, as i have never seen a person die before.

My sister was 26 weeks preganant she started to hemmorage, she was left in A and E for 10 hrs in the end she gave birth to it in a bucket, still born, and by the time the nurses realised it was too late, -

the biggest problem over here is the NHS is milked big time, tonnes of money has been wasted, so our governemtn bought in statistic tables to conrol the massive overspend,so now this puts the nurses under even more pressure, as resources are cut they are expected to do the same job, with no tools, matrons were taken out of wards in budget cuts, so health and hygene went down the pan as it was passed onto 3rd party contractors, so then comes long MRSA and Legionaires disease, it has been said, you are safer staying at home, you are more likely to catch infection at hospital than at home..

I used to sell into the NHS ( national Health Service) there is some cracking people who are trying their best under poor resources,i respect all of them, but it is a sad state of affairs when most of the nurses are foreign and the doctors are from eastern block countries cos we cannot recruit our own in this country..

I have personally found it is still one of the best services in the world and we are admired by many countries, but it will cost you big time if you go to a national health service and many will take advantage of it..cos now they can...

this is what pees me off, if i go abroad on holiday i have to take out medical insurance, but if people come over on holiday and they fall ill they can go straight into hospital (As far As I Know) and be treated, that is what i think is so unfair..

Matt

All The Best

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12-02-2007 05:25 PM  10 years agoPost 39
RayJayJohnsonJr

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Midwest

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I say get a better job and buy better insurance.
Most people would if it were as easy as you make it sound. Perhaps we should all run out and get a job with the phone company!
I'm really starting to grow weary of this entitlement society ...
Agreed, there are many have that have figured out how to abuse the system making it extremely difficult for those that really need it. Much like those who abuse the medical insurance provided them.
We all go ANYTIME we are sick at all
just under 10 years ago I was broke and sleeping on a friend's couch as I had no money, job, or home.
Glad you're doing fine now.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

-Mark

There, their and they're. It's really that simple.

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12-02-2007 06:00 PM  10 years agoPost 40
MasterCrasher

rrApprentice

Not sure.

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I don't claim to have a complete understanding of this issue but I have noticed several things over the years and have a couple questions.

There are too many people running to the doctor for every little thing, basically abusing the system. Why don't have a system to eliminate this? Why can't people pay out of pocket for these minor issues?

Lawsuits, whats the data on this and what is the percentage rate of mistakes. Then break it down into fixable mistakes and irreversible mistakes. I bet the percentage is relatively low considering how many people are treated every day. Would it be out of the question to stop the lawsuits and hold the doctors license at stake if he/she has made to many gross errors. I know some people would get screwed but thats the chance you take just like when you go out on the roads. I would be willing to take those chances if I had the option of affordable treatment.

Drugs, before we had these extremely expensive drugs people lived long lives. How did they manage to do that without these drugs? Are they really worth it?

Last, people die. I know its sounds harsh but at what point to deny treatment. We do it with our pets and we did it before we had these extremely expensive treatments. In other words how much would you be willing to pay out of your own pocket to keep a loved one alive assuming you had the option? Remember, everyone dies someday anyways.

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