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HelicopterOff Topics › man shoots robbers in texas
11-29-2007 10:37 PM  9 years agoPost 1
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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Man says he'll kill intruders, then does

Tuesday, November 27, 2007
HOUSTON (AP) - The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun's chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door.

Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

He did.

Admirers, including several of his neighbors, say Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighborhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Horn just feared for his life.

Prosecuting Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathize with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defense. The case could test the state's self-defense laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbors' property.

Horn was home in Pasadena, about 15 miles southeast of Houston, on Nov. 14 when he heard glass breaking, said his attorney, Tom Lambright. He looked out the window and saw 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and 30-year-old Diego Ortiz using a crowbar to break out the rest of the glass.

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, Lambright said.

"Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher. "Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape. Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside. Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

When the men crawled back out the window carrying a bag, Horn began to sound increasingly frantic.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Lambright said Horn had intended to take a look around when he left his house and instead came face to face with the burglars, standing 10 to 12 feet from him in his yard.

Horn is heavyset and middle-aged and would have been no match in a physical confrontation with the two men, who were young and strong, Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Horn fired in self-defense, he said.

Family members of the two shooting victims have made few public statements.

Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape. "It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."

The Associated Press could not find a telephone listing for Morgan.

The case brought back memories of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker whom some hailed as a folk hero after he shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984.

Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault charges but convicted of illegal possession of the gun he used to shoot the youths. He served 81/2 months in jail and was ordered by a jury to pay $43 million to one of the teenagers he shot.

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

At issue is whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

also here is a link to the 911 call:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=5538780

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11-29-2007 11:29 PM  9 years agoPost 2
classic

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I hope he gets off!

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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11-29-2007 11:37 PM  9 years agoPost 3
RappyTappy

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He probably will. I don't think that any prosecutor could make anyone believe that the two criminals who just robbed a house in broad daylight and had a crobar to use as a weapon would have just walked by Horne and not hurt him had he not had something to protect himself with. Just think those two guys would still be alive today had they been at work trying to make an honest living.

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11-29-2007 11:57 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Lomcevek1

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I am really torn on this one. I have helped friends break into houses and cars before and I would be more than a little pissed if I got a face full of buckshot for doing someone a favor.

On the other hand if (I say "if" cause I was not there) they were doing what the guy thought they were doing then by all means blast em.

Either way it's a slippery slope, Just goes to say an armed society is a polite society.

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11-30-2007 12:13 AM  9 years agoPost 5
TachyonDriver

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Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape. "It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."
Er... EXCUSE ME? Well cry me a river the size of the Colorado, B***H! What on earth were you doing letting your hubby go around committing crimes eh?

The two scrotes were eager, so eager to burglarise someone's home!

This doesn't happen in the UK because not as many people own shotguns, handguns are banned (except in Manchester and Liverpool! ) and we have to wait for the Police to come round and shout loudly at the crims to stop what they're doing.

Yes, Mr. Horn took a risk - the scum could have been packing heat concealed somewhere, and a shotgun's slower to re-load than a semi auto pistol, so he may have got one and not the other, but good show on him for removing these undesirables from the gene pool within Texas law. A shame one of them had already bred..

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!

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11-30-2007 12:23 AM  9 years agoPost 6
Savage

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Westlake LA

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Amen!!! TachyonDriver

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11-30-2007 12:28 AM  9 years agoPost 7
RappyTappy

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North Denver, Colorado

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I have helped friends break into houses and cars before and I would be more than a little pissed if I got a face full of buckshot for doing someone a favor.
Doesn't matter if it was a favor, you were still committing a crime and you know what they always say, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

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11-30-2007 12:39 AM  9 years agoPost 8
classic

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I think he meant beaking into their "own" stuff, cars, homes whatever.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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11-30-2007 01:22 AM  9 years agoPost 9
RappyTappy

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North Denver, Colorado

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oh, read it wrong still saying holds true.

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11-30-2007 02:13 AM  9 years agoPost 10
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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He should not have gone out to shoot them. I am all about the right to have weapons, carry weapons, defend yourself (I just got one new gun today, and am going to order another next week). But he went too far IMO. He didn't need to go out there. He called the police and should not have taken matters into his own hands.

I hope he does not get into trouble since the idiots were criminals...But I do wish he had taken photographs of them and the car, not killed them.

Don't get me wrong...I don't cry over dead criminals. I just wish they didn't have to die...Jail would have been fine IMO.

Now if he had not gone outside and they broke into his house...Insert a magazine, rotate your selector switch from safe to semi, and scan your lanes.

I wonder how long the cops took to respond?

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11-30-2007 02:15 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Dakine

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I am really torn on this one. I have helped friends break into houses and cars before and I would be more than a little pissed if I got a face full of buckshot for doing someone a favor.
Dude, I don't care whether you 'only helped' your friends, if you were to try it in my neighborhood or MY house, you won't be filled with pellets, you and your friends would be filled with .45 cal holes, hollow-point holes.

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11-30-2007 02:16 AM  9 years agoPost 12
OUCaptain

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We need more people like him! Criminals forfeit their life as soon as they choose to even apear to be attacking someone. simple

"Human beings are viruses with shoes"

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11-30-2007 02:23 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Mark C

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Houston, TX - USA

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Man that's old news. Here is today's news.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stor...y.4f7f3fd3.html

Lets keep stackin' em up guys! Makes the paperwork for the law enforcement folks sooo much easier since they just get called in for the cleanup.

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11-30-2007 02:52 AM  9 years agoPost 14
Mark C

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Houston, TX - USA

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And ya know.. I was just browsing the news:

http://news.google.com/news?sourcei...m=1&sa=N&tab=wn

If we aren't careful, wer'e gonna run cear out of burgulars ta shoot!

Last thing we need the the Department of Wildlife bitc#in and moanin that we are hunting these b@st@rds to extinction.

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11-30-2007 03:57 AM  9 years agoPost 15
carzan

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Lone Star State

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He should get off scott free!!!

We're not really all that big on criminals rights down here in texas. Currently we're working on perfecting the drive thru window for executions!

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11-30-2007 04:26 AM  9 years agoPost 16
Dakine

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For the pussies out there who think being a victim is an option, one solution is, if you get caught burglarizing or stealing, I propose to cut off finger(s). For serious crimes, put a tattoo on his forehead. But, we're such a pussy society now. We're so tough while embedded in other countries, but when it comes to our own, we've got a pussy society. The system is too soft, and criminals know it. If y'all think the legal system and law enforcement is going to protect you, you're in for an awakening. Being a victim is not an option folks.

Thank god this guy was in Texas. Had he were in San Francisco, or the Communist State of California, the DA's office would make him chop liver for protecting his family, or even himself.

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11-30-2007 08:52 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Lomcevek1

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Dude, I don't care whether you 'only helped' your friends, if you were to try it in my neighborhood or MY house, you won't be filled with pellets, you and your friends would be filled with .45 cal holes, hollow-point holes.
I suppose I could have been a bit clearer on the matter. If I was breaking into your house it would be because you asked me to and are standing next to me. I don't just go around breaking into houses thats a good way to get shot. Several of my coworkers have locked their keys in the car and i have the tools to open them, so I do.

What I was getting at is I don't want to get shot over a misunderstanding. It was not his property he was defending and the potential for mistakes are high and cannot be corrected with a simple "oops my bad". If you see me breaking into your car or your house then by all means point and shoot (aim for the legs though )

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11-30-2007 08:56 AM  9 years agoPost 18
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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According to the article and the 911 audio, the robbers entered the house by breaking a window with a crowbar and were exiting the house with a bag of stolen goodies. This isn't the type of behavior one would exhibit when helping a buddy break into his house.

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11-30-2007 09:29 AM  9 years agoPost 19
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Joe Horn should be congratulated and awarded for improving the gene pool, even if only slightly.

One way Joe could've handled the situation with less chance of legal trouble would've been to leave the phone off the hook so the dispatcher could hear him say something like, "Drop the bags and drop to your knees or I'll shoot."

Any shots heard after would be easier to defend in court. Ya gotta watch what you say to police dispatchers when you're fixin' to clean up the gene pool.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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11-30-2007 09:55 AM  9 years agoPost 20
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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One way Joe could've handled the situation with less chance of legal trouble would've been to leave the phone off the hook so the dispatcher could hear him say something like, "Drop the bags and drop to your knees or I'll shoot."
He did leave it off the hook....It would have been better to hang up.
"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."
That shows intent to kill. Hard to claim self defense when you put yourself into the situation by confronting them.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.
It would have been better if he had hung up.

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