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HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Pantera Head Vibration -SOLVED
11-27-2007 09:28 PM  9 years agoPost 1
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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I'm having issues with my Pantera 50 that has me at a loss. Yesterday, I found the blade grips worn to the point that the bearings would fall out of them, when held in your hand. I replaced the grips , retracked the blades on the bench and went for a test flight.

The blades tracked but there was still vibration in the body. I removed the entire head and ran the heli to visually inspect the main shaft. It was bent. This has not even been landed hard.

I removed and replaced the main shaft and rechecked my tracking. All seemed well. I did a few circuits and then landed for a visual. All looked well.

I then took it aloft and went through a few rapid flips and rolls. After 3 or 4 minutes, I came back in and noticed the canopy shaking again. It was another bent mainshaft. I have never bent a mainshaft in flight.

The blades are 600mm Gohbee CF and are balanced perfect and the blade cg is also perfect. This whole thing has me at a loss. Any ideas?

[B]

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11-27-2007 10:41 PM  9 years agoPost 2
CHARGE

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FUTURE PLANET EARTH

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Need more info what is the head speed what motor r u running,and what is the pitch range.and is there anything else that goes on with your heli in flight,I have never seen anybody bend a main shaft just flying around and i have seen klye put his through its paces.

A positive outlook is all that is required

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11-27-2007 11:07 PM  9 years agoPost 3
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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More info

I think you may be missing the point here. I'm not Kyle Stacy...I'm just an every day guy. My flying style is NOT what bent the main shaft. There is something going on that is causing the problem. I took off with tight blade grips, and a new spindle and mainshaft. I landed with a bent mainshaft.

Idle up headspeed is 1900 and the motor is an os50 hyper. Pitch range is 10/0/10.

There has to be something wrong somewhere but I am at a loss here. Everything is tight on the frame and no noise or slop is evident anywhere.

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11-27-2007 11:14 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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tracvision,

If you can, give John a call or PM. He's always been a very willing guy to help sort out these issues. Sounds pretty strange what's happening.

If everything is tight and installed correctly you shouldn't have a problem like you're describing. Haven't seen this particular issue posted before.

Cheers, Shayne

Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s

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11-27-2007 11:23 PM  9 years agoPost 5
flyingquisinart

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Detroit Area

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I wonder if the bearings on the spindle are in the correct order. In the Audacity website there is a link within the PDF file for the Pantera with great little video clip to make sure the thrust bearings are installed correctly. I have a Tiger with Pantera spindle, grips & flybar. I guess it's a Pantiger or something.

must have been a downdraft

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11-27-2007 11:55 PM  9 years agoPost 6
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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info

Herc and flyingq

Thanks for the info. JohnB has been more than helpful but this issue is hard to troubleshoot. The problem is not in the spindle bearings [thrust] as that is solid and as it should be. The small dia. bearing race is on the outside as it should be. The thrust bearings are also tight and well greased.

My next step is to pull the mainshaft and go over the 3 main bearings. They feel ok but I'm starting to think that is all that is left. The old blade grips had worn out and I'm wondering if the play can be in the bearing blocks since they are the same material.

Keep the good ideas coming. The Pantera50 is a great flying machine and I'm sure this issue will be resolved soon.

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11-28-2007 12:02 AM  9 years agoPost 7
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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Are the bearing blocks in correctly? Right orientation? I don't know what that would do with vibration but it can possibly cause everything to ride up or down. I went through a couple sets of gears because of this, but no issues with bent main shafts.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers, Shayne

Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s

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11-28-2007 12:10 AM  9 years agoPost 8
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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to Shane

Shane,

I agree with you in that the main bearing orientations wont cause the play in the main shaft arena. However, they will not be secure unless the center bearing block faces down. It is held in place by the gearset race. Good point though. Thanks.

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11-28-2007 03:16 AM  9 years agoPost 9
mlucia

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Essex Jct., Vermont

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Hi Trac...

You said here:
I then took it aloft and went through a few rapid flips and rolls. After 3 or 4 minutes, I came back in and noticed the canopy shaking again. It was another bent mainshaft.
Did you actually take this new main shaft out, roll it on glass and it was bent? It is made of hardened steel and is unlikely to simply, just bend in flight. I mean, anything is possible but it is a strange scenario.

I know I sound like a broken record but I would take apart the head, roll the spindle on glass to double check it, do the same with the main shaft and thoroughly go over the drive train.

Couple other things to check... flybar/paddles balanced? Same distance on each side? Tail belt seems fine and smooth tail operation? No slop in the grips (side to side or pulling out on them). What about the dampeners and so they appear fine? Engine/clutch and mounts all tight and no slop or play? Just food for thought as vibrations can be misleading and come from different places.

-Mark

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11-28-2007 04:04 AM  9 years agoPost 10
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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to Madcow

Mark,

All good recommendations. I'm going to start over tomorrow morning. Thanks for the suggestions.

Harold

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11-28-2007 04:37 AM  9 years agoPost 11
The Dude II

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IN - USA

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tracvision,

Maybe this will help???

Earlier this year I had canopy vibrations too (never bent a main shaft though)at 2000 & 2100...but not at 1750.

Went through the head time and again...spindle, grips, bearings, dampers, flybar, paddles, linkages, balance (static & dynamic)...main shaft...all spot on.

It wasn't the head system...it was the tail output shaft assembly.

Tail output shaft was true...as was the rear hub and T/R.

The output was worn enough and the rear bearings that grabbing the T/R hub...I could wiggle the shaft to and fro...maybe +/- .010".

I pulled the bearings, checked (ok) and greased. The output shaft had some signs of spinning inside the inner race of the bearings.
Loctite 290/permatex 29000 (green wicking) solved the wear and tightened the tail output.

No more vibs.

Now another thought...if you've worn the grips such that the bearings fall out (I too...I use CA+ on the tip of a pin to help "suck-up" the tolerances)...how are those dampers?

Also, how is tracking...hover...gentle flight...hover again and check?

lotta ins, lotta outs

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11-28-2007 12:08 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Irish886

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coventry RI

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Another way to check a main shaft is to put it in a drill press like you would the drill and if it is bent you will see it wobble when you turn it on. I have used a regular drill also if you do not have a drill press but you have to make sure that there is no slop in the drill chuck. I do that with every new spindle and main shaft I get before I instlall them.

Irish

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11-28-2007 04:36 PM  9 years agoPost 13
tracvision

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Tampa, Florida

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Head vibration solved.

As you may remember, I pulled the entire head and ran the heli to see if the main shaft was bent. It wobbled so I assumed it was. It wasn't!! It was the main upper bearing that was bad. I pulled the shaft and bearing to inspect closer. I put the bearing on the shaft and it was tight with no slop. I rotated it a few times and then got some play. I assume the inside of the bearing tightens and loosens as it is rotated. I learned a good lesson here in the importance of good bearings and regular replacement. Thanks much for all of the advice. DudeII and others sent me down the right road.

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11-28-2007 04:49 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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Excellent. Glad to hear you solved the problem. Invest in "The Greaser" too if you don't have one. Excellent device for greasing the bearings.

Cheers, Shayne

Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s

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11-28-2007 05:10 PM  9 years agoPost 15
mlucia

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Essex Jct., Vermont

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Oh good!!

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11-28-2007 05:23 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Irish886

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coventry RI

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Glad to hear you found it. Nothing worse than chasing a problem!!

Herc
How do you use the greaser? Do you have to take the plate off the bearing to grease it?? I would be nervous that I would destroy the bearing.

Irish

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11-28-2007 05:36 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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Irish,

The design of the greaser is such that it uses pressure to push the grease through the bearing, packing it with grease and forcing the old grease/dirt out. You can also rig little adapters and such so that you don't have to remove the bearing from its installed position. That only works for certain things though. For the money it's a great device. When you learn to use it properly there's not a lot of mess either.

Cheers, Shayne

Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s

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11-28-2007 05:42 PM  9 years agoPost 18
Irish886

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coventry RI

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I did a search here and someone posted pictures on how it works. You basically put the bearing in the concave cone, then take the shaft with the pointed white piece and put it into the center race of the bearing and push it. The grease is forced up from the bottom of the cone and pushes out the old grease. Pretty nice device but is it really needed? Don't the bearings come all greased from the factory?? I guess if they get dirt in them you can push it out with the new grease and they will last longer.

Irish

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11-28-2007 05:48 PM  9 years agoPost 19
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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They last longer and run smoother if maintained. Especially the tail bearings that are in the dirt all the time. The factory grease isn't that great and it's usually pretty light. I always grease the bearings on an install and during regular maintenance.

Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s

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11-28-2007 06:53 PM  9 years agoPost 20
Irish886

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coventry RI

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What grease do you use??

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HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Pantera Head Vibration -SOLVED
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