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HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Did you see the new price for the pantera
11-27-2007 04:36 AM  9 years agoPost 61
Heli_Man_Bob

rrApprentice

Miamisburg, Ohio, US

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All I can say is my new Pantera is on its way.

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11-27-2007 05:14 AM  9 years agoPost 62
steve9534

rrKey Veteran

yakima, wa.

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Heli Business 101

I'm doubting it's possible to make a profit selling helis at a LHS except in a few large markets. Here in Washington state I don't know of a single shop where I can go and have a reasonable chance of finding all the crash parts I need for ANY brand of heli. I know there are some that have tried, but it seems there's always at least one missing piece and I end up ordering anyway. My choices are to go to a LHS and buy what they have at a higher price than I'd pay via mail order, then order the rest, or just order the parts I need and be done with it. The helis change so quickly and the parts requirements are so different for different crashes that it's almost impossible in a smaller city with 5-10 guys flying to have what they need. I know some of the dealers will scream, but the economics of it just don't add up. So, having offended most every dealer in the country, I'll say I believe John is doing what he has to do in order to make a living at it - sell the helis for cheap direct to the customer and give great service. Having a couple of the big online shops selling too certainly wouldn't hurt, but trying to prop up the LHS's with artificially high prices just hurts everyone in the end. The shops are mad because the helis don't sell and they lose big time with unsold goods, and John loses even bigger because he's got a warehouse full of helis he mortgaged his home to buy and can't sell. I'd agree with Magoo that I believe there's a pent up demand for a little more than a 50, but not so big as a 90 helicopter. The parts are already designed for a big block kit and there has to be about 10,000 slightly used 61's including mine sitting around from days gone by. Why he doesn't put the conversion kit together and sell it is a mystery. Supposedly they're working on the gear ratio, but if they'd just sell it with what they have, I'd bet there would be a lot of folks who'd snap it up. Finally, a better looking canopy would help a lot. I doubt most folks will admit it, but how the thing looks probably counts for more than any other characteristic. Ask the car companies - they're not advertising how many wheel bearings they've got or whether the thing is screwed together with socket head cap screws. What sells is looks and some sort of macho "see what I've got, I must be a pretty together kind of guy who gets the hot girls" sort of nonsense. I hate to say it, because it really is nonsense, but it's true all the same. Right now the Pantera looks pretty ordinary, sort of the Ford Fiesta of helis. There's nothing really wrong with it, but the looks of it don't get you out of your seat and down to the dealers to buy one either. The Raptors got away with ugly when their only competition was a Shuttle, but the world is a changing place and for a heli to sell it has to look "right" whatever that may be. I've probably said too much and will butt out for now as my friend Perry has kindly(?) suggested. steve.

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11-27-2007 03:04 PM  9 years agoPost 63
ProModeler

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Steve,

This thread started off simply to announce a Christmas sale and has gone downhill. I've refrained from getting into it but I must.

First off, let me assure anybody interested that regardless of what Perry may say, there's not a dealer on this planet that will "lose" so much as a thin dime on inventory they purchased, even at these reduced prices. They just won't make as much!

In short, my letter to them was simply this; business conditions have changed. Part of something is better than all of nothing. Don't like it? Send it back and I'll give you your money back. What could be more fair? Meanwhile . . .

a) I've been in the hobby business since 1993.
b) I have a business relationship with 525 hobby dealers in the USA and Canada (we sell more than helis of course).
c) You'd be hard pressed to find one that says I've lied or mistreated them (you don't stay in business doing this). I've been in business 14 years, ergo sum, I don't do this.

What was Perry doing two or three years ago, i.e. before he got involved in the hobby business. This last leads me to wonder what exactly Perry's credentials are? I.e. to have the gall to come to a public place like RR and question me, a reputable businessman about my business mores. Frankly, it's beyond the pale, but there you have it. This leads me to wonder two further things;

1. Why on Earth would Perry be whining about this in public on RR?
2. Does his store-owner know he's doing it?

Anyway, to date it appears Perry's boss at B&B is sending back inventory. Meanwhile, I've heard otherwise from 38 dealers (there are 130 handling the Pantera). They basically agree this turn of events sucks, but they're big boys and understand how the world turns and thus, will continue with us as we move forward. One dealer actually used this phrase and I appropriated it.

What will the other dealers do? Frankly, I've no idea, but I'm man enough to suck it up and make them whole, so what business is it of Perry's to come here and air this out in front of my customers? I especially don't see where it serves the interests of B&B (where Perry works) because if anything, judging from the three PMs I've received as well as some of the public responses to this thread, the folks on this forum aren't with Perry. It's unfortunate if this reflects poorly on B&B in Spokane as a consequence . . . because it should not!

Why not? Because to my certain knowledge, Bryan (the owner of B&B) is an absolutely first class guy (and a world class pylon racer). Furthermore, he's second generation in the hobby business and while Perry demonstrates business ignorance, Bryan certainly understands business decisions. Furthermore, I rather doubt Bryan even has a clue this is happening in his name, much less on a public forum!

So what's going on Perry? I wrote a private letter to my dealers. You forced my hand and made this into a public "situation", which was needless in my opinion. What were your options? Well, you could have simply picked up the phone, sent me an email, or even a PM. Instead you chose an unremonstrated public display. Why?

Irregardless, I said I would give any dealer their money back, so why are you writing about how you'll report to this forum whether I do this or not? Who the heck are you?

Finally, it's my opinion you have both demonstrated unmitigated gall and have abrogated your responsibility, i.e. to represent B&B to the utmost of your ability. It's also my opinion you have shown a lack of good judgment, especially for someone in your position of trust, i.e. to have publicly engaged in this particular thread in the first place, which you have further compounded by stating you will report back to the forum!

If you were my employee you'd find yourself seeking other employment.

My 2¢


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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11-27-2007 03:23 PM  9 years agoPost 64
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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100% in agreement, dealer business shouldn't be done here, and he wouldn't be on my payroll after his actions here.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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11-27-2007 03:38 PM  9 years agoPost 65
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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Took ones advice. Sorry that we could not all play nice. Enjoy your winter season!!!!

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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11-27-2007 04:12 PM  9 years agoPost 66
Stick Twanger

rrApprentice

Honeoye Falls, NY

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John,
I applaud your efforts to be competitive. I am amazed at how you have been beat up over a move that will benefit all.
It is a sale. Everyone should be celebrating!!
I think you went above and beyond by sending out the letter to your dealers and offering to refund their money. For that move you should be commended. Honestly, you didn't have to do that. I'm not surprised to see that a couple of dealers didn't get the letter. Stuff happens in a big operation like this. I'm sure you will do the right thing for those that didn't see your note.
By the way, the boss has read the threads and the emails that I have sent to you.....
That is very disappointing. I have known B&B for a few years. I am sorry to see that they support your low budget soap box rants. To air it out here was just plain wrong.
We have sent JB our decision as to his product and am waiting for his response. I will post results when we get word.... Any other dealers out there just getting the "New Price Anouncement"?
Who died and left you boss?

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11-27-2007 05:00 PM  9 years agoPost 67
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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Took ones advice. Sorry that we could not all play nice. Enjoy your winter season!!!!

"Public apology" John I sincerely do apolagise if anything I said was taken as a personal assult. That was not my intent. I have spoken to you many times on the phone and yes you have allways been polite and helpfull. As I shouted before, I do hope your new price structure turns large numbers for you. I am sorry things did not work out with us and your product. I think that perhaps we just have a different mind set. I will try and refrain from any further negative posts on this subject as you have agreed to take care of things with us. I wish you a happy and lucrative holiday season.

Sincerely,
Perry

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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11-27-2007 05:55 PM  9 years agoPost 68
MJWS

rrKey Veteran

Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Hopefully the new model works out. I think it is certainly a lot closer to being priced competitively now. Hope you sell a bunch. Get the Big Block Kit released and you tag a nice niche. Heck pull the std parts and offer a 'hot rod' version.

The Pantera's in our shop have been sitting a long time. Shooting from the hip (vs Hawk Pro, Kinetic, Pantera): 'For a couple bucks more get the 600N, parts are plentiful, cheap, and you can get them anywhere. In the larger scheme of things it's a few percent more for the newest, lightest, best flying bird out there. It's about VALUE more than a couple dollars. <gesture to HUGE wall of 450, 600E, 600N parts and a dozen kits that sell very well>'

With a significant price differential, there is a talking point for dealers. As a business owner the more significant problem is HUGE brand recognition (450 owners), and a solid, competitively priced product by Align. We have multiple distributors we can buy from including one a couple hours away (Canada), not too mention Horizon, so it is a tough channel to beat or even compete as a dog against.

As a model of how to attack their space... watch the eflight blade 400. We have rtf, 2.4ghz, brushless, hh gyro, batteries, balancing charger. All of it for around $450 on the street. LESS THAN HALF of what it costs to do a trex 450 competently. That is serious value added when combined with Horizon's support policies, reputation, and channel. Now those boys have a shot at making a dent. I'm sure we'll stock them by the dozens and they will FLY out of the shop as people love their little CX's, the brand, and want a little more heli.

Dealer bitching aside. Good luck John. Sometimes you have to change the model to compete. I'm not sure $199, sold direct and in concert with a few HUGE mail order/retail shops isn't the place to be. Century is getting in line, TT, and Hirobo will follow... you may as well lead the charge.

Mike

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11-27-2007 06:57 PM  9 years agoPost 69
Raffy

rrElite Veteran

Chicago, Illinois

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A beginner should actually jump on this pricing to buy 2 Pantera kits as it is priced as "buy one take one free".

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11-27-2007 11:04 PM  9 years agoPost 70
CHARGE

rrApprentice

FUTURE PLANET EARTH

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lets see make the kit easyier for the beginner or any pilot to get does that mean more motors to sell and all the stuff to get it airborn Hellow sounds like a plan to me,besides i like seeing fellow pilots with there tiger and and there pantera they all seem to have that smile from ear to ear. Gotta love this game.

A positive outlook is all that is required

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11-30-2007 04:17 AM  9 years agoPost 71
billm

rrElite Veteran

Liberty Lake, WA

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Time out

I think this whole thing has gotten out of hand.
I have been flying JB's ships almost since day one and have had no problems with parts and ships...Via the web and cleaning out the LHS of parts.
Now then a few comments:

1. Why on Earth would Perry be whining about this in public on RR?
2. Does his store-owner know he's doing it?

1. Perry is a good pilot and just happens to work at the LHS. Before he started working at the LHS....not a clue of his history. I just duck when he flys.

2. The LHS store owner has been in the biz for 40+ years. Did you know that he owned one of first RC transmitter/RX/servo companys in the world? I'm talking the real deal from injecting the housings in house to burning pcb and assembly...EK home of the big red brick. Before Japan started building radio control systems EK was bar none. we had Heathkits and popular electronics mags to make our stuff. He had a full prodution line of the best in the world equipment that I was using in the 70's. Ya I think the "store-owner" knows what he is doing, and knows his Sh$t. Your should see his store. It's the real deal.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic

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11-30-2007 07:12 AM  9 years agoPost 72
ARMSMASTER

rrVeteran

spokane, wa

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Took ones advice. Sorry that we could not all play nice. Enjoy your winter season!!!!

Life is like a box of chochlates!

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11-30-2007 07:43 AM  9 years agoPost 73
WJackson

rrElite Veteran

Smyrna, Delaware

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So your saying Bryan knows how you handled this matter and approves of it? John Beech doesnt deserve this, and I personally agree with the post that you'd be looking for another job. No, I dont own an Audacity product, but have seen Johns attempt at tackling this market. He seems like a very stand up guy with a genuine care for the people he deals with. Any Align executives ask for our opinions or make themselves available to the public? At the very least if I was Bryan, I would have requested you go back and edit your posts to remove business dealings from a public forum. Very unprofessional in my opinion.

RIP Roman
Bill Jackson
AlignUSA

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11-30-2007 03:54 PM  9 years agoPost 74
Rennster

rrVeteran

Hawaii

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In the ALIGN forum they talk about tech problems, but here they talk Sh%t about a person trying to give us a quality product. When there is a technical problem, JB gives insight and help on how to fix it. IN the ALIGN forum I NEVER hear anything from the ALIGN president or their janitor!!!on how to fix a problem. Heck I gave JB a call and he talked to me about it. Try that with ALIGN.
JB is trying to keep his product a float amidst a sea of products. If he doesn't we lose all support for our helis.

I don't know the hobby business but I think whoever it is should stop posting business-related topics in this forum. Unprofessional and immature.

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11-30-2007 10:12 PM  9 years agoPost 75
Life_Nerd

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USA

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JB gives insight and help on how to fix it. IN the ALIGN forum I NEVER hear anything from the ALIGN president or their janitor!!!
Amen to that. This is why I chose the Tiger50 as my first nitro heli vs anything else. The remote support from JB helped me get through the build and tuning (all new to me at that time). The Tiger50 still flies and now has 2 Pantera's for bigger brothers. I may check out the Align 600n but for the extra price and for what "I" can do with it, it would be a waste of money "for me". My skills aren't there to exploit the added 3D-ability and I would give up the crash survivability and ease of repair of the Audacity models.

Thanks!
Scott

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12-01-2007 01:49 AM  9 years agoPost 76
billm

rrElite Veteran

Liberty Lake, WA

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LHS worker bee

It is getting cold here, but we are still flying!
YOU as a worker bee should try and sell the kits that are on the shelf this holiday time. If they don't sell. Your boss can then return them per JB's agreement. Stupid to get rid of stock at this time of year to get duckets back in Jan. You can always let the customers know that I am ready to help in set up and flying/training. Have I not helped in this regard? Oh and I don't charge anyhing for my time.
I think it's time to drag your boss out for a few beers and review what has happend. I need to know the real story. I think you can handle the shop when we are away.
Flying a Pantera demo Saterday at the field. Sunday looks like a snow storm comming.
I should just SHUT UP AND FLY and not deal with this.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic

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12-06-2007 10:15 PM  9 years agoPost 77
llamont

rrApprentice

California

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Hello all

While I tend to shy away from threads and discussions of this nature, I couldn't resist adding my piece on this topic.

First, this is a public forum. Where is the tact in attempting to defame another person's reputation and character over a small business disagreement? The content of the argument that prompted this thread was between two parties that shared a business relationship. For that reason, this discussion should not have been conferred in this environment. We (the hobby consumers) don't need to know about the diminutive pissing match between the distributor and the dealer. Those matters should be handeled in person (perhaps over a beer if local) or on the telephone, out of the consumer's audience. I don't know JB or Perry, but the manner in which Perry voiced his disconcern regarding his business interest with JB was carried out in extremely poor taste.

Secondly, reading or hearing about a fiasco of this sort would lead me to not support the antagonist, which in this case appears to be the shop. Blindsiding a former colleague over spilled milk shows a lot about one's character. I understand you want the best deals so that you may pass the value(s) onto the customers but at what cost will you go to do so?

B*B sounds like an "old school" shop where the foundation was built out of love for the hobby. 40+ years in the business is impressive to say the least. Hopefully, B*B continues to demonstrate the customer service that has kept them above water for so long.

I understand that my opinoin(s) may seem unwarranted and inappropriate, but that is what you get when you choose to air your dirty laundry on a public forum.

Hopefully this matter will be resolved in a positive manner and serve as a lesson in which something constructive can be learned. I wish all a happy holiday season (including JB, Perry, and etc...)and safe flying.

Loren

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12-07-2007 11:57 AM  9 years agoPost 78
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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supporting Audacity

I never considered Audacity before today. I'm going to buy a kit just to support John, whoever he is. I have 4 Raptors and a Hirobo EVO 50 right now. Where can I buy directly from him?

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12-07-2007 12:29 PM  9 years agoPost 79
rsalazar

rrElite Veteran

Florida, USA

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This iis the web site and phone

http://www.audacitymodels.com/

phone (407) 302-3361

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12-07-2007 01:03 PM  9 years agoPost 80
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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thanks for the link. I just placed an order for the Pantera 50 from the website.

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