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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › helicommand setup on 600e trex
11-30-2007 12:10 AM  10 years agoPost 301
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

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The Position hold only works up to aprrox. .5m (10ft) so it really serves no purpose unless your learning to fly etc..

The horizontal hold works great.

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11-30-2007 10:54 AM  10 years agoPost 302
dl7uae

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Am a Kraut.

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Chris, the cam shouldn't get too close to the ground during takeoff and landing - but dangerous w/ microhelis only. The reason is that objects seen by the cam getting bigger and bigger - at a certain point the impulses derived from the pattern recognition getting too "strong" - the model may do some crazy shaking.

On the other hand - getting too distant from ground -> pattern recognition stops generating 2D impulses - HC simply switches from POS to HOR mode. My experience is that beginning from an altitude of about 2.5 meters the pattern recognition is getting too weak already.

Tom

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11-30-2007 03:33 PM  10 years agoPost 303
daytonabeach

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Oslo, Norway

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Thx Tom, i will exclude the pos mode, as it appears in worst case to mess up thing more than needed than without

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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11-30-2007 04:01 PM  10 years agoPost 304
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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Hey guys,
I got my PC interface and picking up the USB cable today. Hope to get it installed this weekend if the H.D. list isn't too long.

Thanks for posting all the setup info. It should make setup much easier. I'm sure I'll have some ?s

Tip

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12-02-2007 07:53 PM  10 years agoPost 305
Lon33

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Santa Monica, CA, USA

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HeliCommand's Built-In Heading Hold Gyro

Is anyone using HeliCommand's built-in heading hold gyro? I ask, because I've installed an HC3A on my T-Rex 450, and everything seems to be working correctly except the HC's heading hold gyro.

That is, the swashplate levels itself (quite quickly) when I tilt the heli's body (by hand) left, right, forward or back. But when I move (by hand) the heli's nose left or right, the tail rotor slider doesn't move at all or it moves in the wrong direction very slowly. What's worse, when I spool-up, the tail shakes violently, even before lift-off.

This has me puzzled, because the tail rotor slider responds perfectly to my transmitter's stick movements (when I try them on the bench).

I've lowered the Gyro Gain from 65 to 40, both on my transmitter (a DX7) and using HC's PC-software.

Before installing the HC on my heli, I had a GY401 on it, and it worked perfectly. I'm on the verge of reinstalling the GY401. Before I do that though, I'd like to figure out whether there's something wrong with my HC's heading hold gyro, and whether I haven't set it up right.

If you got yours to work, do you have any setup tips for me?

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12-02-2007 08:01 PM  10 years agoPost 306
daytonabeach

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Oslo, Norway

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Im not a pro on this, but i hear the others prefer the external gyro.
Could it be that the internal are sensitive to the vibrations and starts a never ending shake?
If so, i also hear that some have swithced of the HC during spool up and after the heli have reached the optimal rpm then switch it on, they same way after landing and before spool down.

Arrest me if im wrong, but something to chew on until Tom gets here

By the way, Tom is the pro on this topic in here, if you also read this looong topic you will find valuable info.

Good luck!

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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12-02-2007 08:06 PM  10 years agoPost 307
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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HeliCommand's Built-In Heading Hold Gyro

I posted this a few pages back.

Tried these settings on a Logo 10(550's) and eRaven (620's).

9254. Both hold just like my 401/9254.

... But honey it was only $$$

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12-02-2007 09:10 PM  10 years agoPost 308
Lon33

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Santa Monica, CA, USA

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Thanks kookboy. Your settings helped quite a bit. My tail still shakes, so I'm going to dial down the gyro channel heading hold number even more. But it doesn't shake nearly as badly at your setting of 34 as it did at my settings of 65 and then 40.

Three questions:

1. Does the "gain" sensitivity in the transmitter matter at all any more, or is the HC completely in charge of the heading hold gyro now so that the transmitter's gain sensitivity setting doesn't control anything?

2. What (in everday langauge) do the "yaw rate" and "yaw expo" settings control?

3. I asked about "yaw rate" and "yaw expo" because your setting for "yaw expo" was much higher than mine -- yours was 7, my earlier setting was just 3 -- and I'm wondering whether the improvement I just noticed was related to an increase in "yaw expo" rather than in the gyro channel heading hold number. What do you think?

-Lon

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12-02-2007 09:12 PM  10 years agoPost 309
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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That's promising. I think the first positive result using the HH gyro. I'm going to start with my 401 then maybe try the internal gyro.

Tip

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12-02-2007 09:58 PM  10 years agoPost 310
andreirrApprentice - Clovis,NM-USA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have ruined this heli on my very first attempt at using the HC internal TR gyro.It held for bout 20 seconds just fine after wich the heli started spinning very fast and being probably 5 feet off the ground i was unable to do anything about it.I tried to counteract manually the spin and bring it down gently but it didn't do any good, before i knew it the heli hit the ground hard enough to destroy the LG and crack the fuse.I would really like to try it again but i can't muster the nerve.My faith in it is badly shaken.

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12-02-2007 10:27 PM  10 years agoPost 311
daytonabeach

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Oslo, Norway

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Are you 110% sure it was due to the gyro and nothing else?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

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12-02-2007 11:15 PM  10 years agoPost 312
rerazorrrElite Veteran - Mich. - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

kookboy,

You don't use the auto trim feature? I see you have just the AUX channel selected for the gyro and not gyro/auto trim.

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12-02-2007 11:26 PM  10 years agoPost 313
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

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I haven't used the autotrim yet.

On occasion, I'll have a little wag here and there but barely noticeable.

andrei

Before you tested the HC in flight, did you use the DIAGNOSE tab and make absolute certain that all the directions/movements are correct ? Tx -> HC -> Heli

The reason I ask is because your loss of HC tail may be these things:

Bad servo
Loose mechanical setup
Loose linkages

or

HC was setup on the bench and everything moved in the proper direction (physically) BUT the HC algorithm(math) was compensating for the Tx settings (reversed gyro/atv settings,etc.. were not at default zero).

When I set up the HC3A the first time, everything appear to work properly.

When I tilted the heli to the right (me looking from tail -> nose), the swash tilted to the left and stayed level. Same with back/forward. Tail moved properly as well.

Well as it turned out, I went into DIAG tab/mode and my tail and aileron movements were reversed.

ie. When I moved the ail to right, the heli/swash tilted to the right, but the DIAGNOSE tag said the stick was moving to the left (opposite to what I was doing).

If I would have taken off like that, everything would have most likely worked normally.

As soon as I would change to horizontal mode, either my tail and/or aileron's would have reversed.

Which sounds to me like that's what happened to you.

Your tail was fine and then all of a sudden, it went in the opposite direction causing the spin.

For all of you guys running the HC, I strongly suggest to plug the module in, load it up in the PC interface and go to the DIAG tab and check to see if all of your Tx movements correspond with the DIAG bars and the heli.

If not and you see something reversed, start over again.

A big thanks to Chandler for letting me know this part of the algorithm/software side of the HC. Had I not spoken with him, I would have never even thought of checking the DIAG.

Jesse

... But honey it was only $$$

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12-03-2007 12:16 AM  10 years agoPost 314
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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Just hooked it up and test flew it in the driveway. Lots of oscillation, but seems to work. I hooked up the link and lowered the gain settings, tried it again...similar, but less oscillaton. The position hold works well...I turned it down all the way, but it still seems to be on. I think I'm going to like it when it gets dialed in.

Sorry to hear about the heli, Andrei. The same thing happened to me when I first got the AP2K. Destroyed my L10...same heli I'm putting this on. I went through the same thing...didn't use the AP2K for a year. It wasn't the AP2Ks fault. I had the sensing reversed. The AP2K now lives on my Logo 20 and works very well. (as well as IR sensors work). I'm glad I got over it. Good luck with yours.

A couple questions for the pros:

1) did you all ground the motor and heli boom like the manual says?

2) how many of you are using the pilot and aux controlls to set the HC? (I'm running out of channels with camera trigger and tilt)

3) In the first 10 seconds, does it have to initialize on a level surface, or does it matter?

Thx,
Tip

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12-03-2007 12:53 AM  10 years agoPost 315
andrei

rrApprentice

Clovis,NM-USA

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Kookboy i've had the HC for almost a year now and i used the Tx sticks to set it up.I'm very helpless when it comes to software of any kind.I had a GY401 before attempting to use the HC internal gyro and it worked just fine with it.I switched back to the 401 and i have no problem.Probably it was a setup mistake on my part but like i said i dont trust the HC's own tail gyro anymore.It would probably work fine since you and others are using it successfully if properly set but it's easier to use an external proven one.For me at least.

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12-03-2007 01:08 AM  10 years agoPost 316
andrei

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Clovis,NM-USA

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Thinking in retrospective i don't think my version of the software had the diagnose tab.I recently downloaded ver 1.34 wich does have that option,maby i'll give it another try just for the hell of it since i don't really need to save the added weight of an external gyro.I'm using it now on a stretched T-rex 450 on 6s set for AP and it has plenty of power.

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12-03-2007 01:16 AM  10 years agoPost 317
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you are satisfied with the 401, then by all means, you have no reason to use anything else.

If I wouldn't have the time/patience and little test ship to play around with the HC internal gyro, I would've stuck with my 401 combo without question.

A couple questions for the pros:

1) did you all ground the motor and heli boom like the manual says?

I did and still do on all the ships eventhough they are torque tube driven. I've been doing that since I got static from my 1st Trex450 quite a while back.

2) how many of you are using the pilot and aux controlls to set the HC? (I'm running out of channels with camera trigger and tilt)

I've set mine up now so that I have POS mode on normal (turned off in the PC software), HORZ stab in Idle up1, no stab in Idle up2.

That freed up my aux channels on my DX7.

3) In the first 10 seconds, does it have to initialize on a level surface, or does it matter?

My routine is I let it sit for 10 secs on the ground to initialize, then lift/hover and check the stab/trim. If all is good, then I go fly.

Technically, once you have trimmed and set/calibrated the HC, on your next flight it should retain all the previous information.

However, temperature/initializing on uneven terrain can throw off the previous calibration.

I haven't done this yet, but I'm doing to mount a 360* bubble on the heli frame and set/initialize/calibrate the heli.

Once that's done, on my next flight I just have to position the heli so that the bubble is dead center and then start up and fly.

Theoretically since I've calibrated it before at bubble center, then next time when I initialize it at bubble center, everything should be the same.

Jesse

... But honey it was only $$$

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12-03-2007 02:17 AM  10 years agoPost 318
dreslism

rrVeteran

Rochester Hills, MI

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One thing the manual says is that if you were not using the tail gyro, then you were going to use it, that you need to redo the set (holding the button for 1 second.) You cannot just plug the gyro in and start using it when you had done the set before without using the gyro.

Don't know if that could have contributed to your problem Andrei, or like kookboy said, it could have been the same issue he almost had.

I think the pc interface is invaluable for this device, especially with the diagnostic tab.

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12-03-2007 03:35 AM  10 years agoPost 319
Lon33

rrNovice

Santa Monica, CA, USA

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More questions for the pros:

1. When I'm using the HC's internal head hold gyro, does the "gain" sensitivity in the transmitter matter at all, or is the HC completely in charge of the heading hold gyro now so that the transmitter's gain sensitivity setting doesn't control anything?

2. What (in everday language) do the "yaw rate" and "yaw expo" settings control?

3. I ask about "yaw rate" and "yaw expo" because my heli is now flying (with the HC internal HH gyro) -- but not as well as did, when all I used was a GY401. In fact, I have to correct my heli's yaw a great deal -- with to-the-right movements of the left stick -- when my heli's in the air. So I'm wondering whether my yaw rate and yaw expo should be bigger numbers.

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12-03-2007 04:07 AM  10 years agoPost 320
andrei

rrApprentice

Clovis,NM-USA

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Dreslism

It could've been either.It's ancient history.At the time i didn't understand one bit the instructions,i just went ahead and palyed with the sticks till i made it happen.It took me the best part of an afternoon but it worked.(with the GY401 that is).I still don't understand what all the configurable paramenters in the software do but i've never had the need to use any.

Lon33

I believe the sensitvity for the gyro can be increased or decreased from the Tx even though you set it in the software to some extent.Just pay attention to the gyro page to select at the bottom what function you want to assign to the auxilliary channel you are going to use for that purpose.I believe its default setting is gyro sens. control.At least that is my understanding but like i said i'm not on the friendliest terms with most softwares so i might be dead wrong.

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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › helicommand setup on 600e trex
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