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T-REX 450 › AMAZING new tail mod by Finle$$ and friends..
09-17-2007 05:46 AM  10 years agoPost 1
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...
This will undoubtedly be covered in depth on another rather Freaky heli forum, but I needed to mention it on RR..
Bob and his friend Kevin introduced an amazingly effective tail rotor mod at the Buzzin the Border fun fly.
They had set up two 450 helis without blades to show the effects of the modification..With the stock tail setup and t/r push rod disconnected at the servo, the first heli was spun up to a relatively low rpm, and observers were asked to try to move the t/r control rod by hand from one extreme of throw to the other..Amazingly, due to the gyroscopic effect of the pitch arms on the grips, this was impossible to do withoout damaging the heli..
With the same setup usng the modified grips, the force required to move the pitch arm felt about the same as when the heli was powered down!
Result in flight for me was a much better feel to the tail, the ability to raiise the gain about 10 %, and a much better tail lock crosswind..I've always felt the stock tail was adequate, but this takes it to a whole new level, for practically no investment!
As an aside, I believe this phenomenon explains the issues of burned out t/r servos..It is that dramatic.
Hats off to Kevin and Bob, especially as Kevin spent hours modifying t/r grips for people at no charge!

John.

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09-17-2007 05:49 AM  10 years agoPost 2
Trooper Sam

rrVeteran

Perris, California - USA

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Yes, "Kevin's Crack Tail" rocks!

Trooper Sam

We do not do this to save money, we save money to do this-TheRickster

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09-17-2007 06:18 AM  10 years agoPost 3
hotgluedheli

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USA

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What is the gist of this modification?

I crash therefore I am

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09-17-2007 08:51 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Kevin Dalrymple

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis

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Bob and Kevin added weight to each of the tail blades to remove the gyroscopic effect. For weight they added a ball from a ball link set up. They mounted the balls on both sides of the grips. Hopefully someone will post a pick from the weekend so you will know exacly how they are placed. I got to feel the mod they did and it is awsome.

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09-17-2007 08:56 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Spinky

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PETERBOROUGH UK

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That would be great to see a picture of it

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09-17-2007 09:46 AM  10 years agoPost 6
hotgluedheli

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USA

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I tried the tail experiment and it really does take a lot of force to move the tail without the blades on due to the gyro effect. And i'm using plastic tail grips. That was really surprising. There is a picture of the mod on the other forum its a very interesting mod to counteract this force but looks like it would take precise drilling otherwise it would throw off the balance. Could the same effect be achieved using longer blade bolts allowing weights say a nut be placed on either side of the blade grips or is the distance of the weights critical? If it worked then no precise drilling and tapping would be required.

I crash therefore I am

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09-17-2007 10:00 AM  10 years agoPost 7
Edders

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Suffolk,UK

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Colin Mill of CSM fame has long being telling us to add an extra nut on a slightly longer blade bolt for this very reason. hopefully more people will try it and work out the best weight for each machine

Edders

Sponsored by Real Raptors and CSM

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09-17-2007 11:39 AM  10 years agoPost 8
mjsb

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Laredo, TX

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What is the other forum? Any links?

Thanks!

--------------------------
If life turns its back on you....then grab it by the buttocks!

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09-17-2007 12:36 PM  10 years agoPost 9
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I don't quite understand.

Two helis without tail blades.

Why not do the test with tail blades? It was stated that you could not move the slider without damaging the heli. When the blades are installed this changes things and you obviously must be able to move it or these helis wouldn't fly in stock form.

I would suggest that depending on what blades you run and the model tail/grip assy you are using would call for different weight to "tune" it.

I would also think weight placement is critical for the most effect with the least amount of weight.

A small test tail mounted on a base and run up with a motor at real time speeds with a lever attached so you can dynamically feel it would be a good start.

Adding weight is never a good idea. Maybe the grips could be redesigned with a more forgiving gyro effect.

This is great information! Thanks for the post.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-17-2007 12:55 PM  10 years agoPost 10
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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Interesting! I have done the experiment with the stock tail and tail blades on- surprising how much force it takes to move the pushrod. Poor little tail servo- helps explain why the Fut S3154 I was running sometimes got a little warm

Also I was running plastic grips and (after a tail-first "landing" had to replace them and all I had on hand were metal grips. The tail has not behaved quite as well since, and I had to turn the gain down a couple percent.

I really gotta look into this mod. It also helps me understand the NIX tail- look at Flying-Hobby.com website and Trex-Tuning for a review. It's supposed to be a real nice tail setup, and it has counterbalances built-in!

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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09-17-2007 01:20 PM  10 years agoPost 11
ckoelliker

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St. Simons, GA

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This is the first I saw of it over on the other site.

http://www.heli-freak.com/showthrea...light=tail+ball

Remember to remove the hyphen.

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09-17-2007 01:42 PM  10 years agoPost 12
mjsb

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Laredo, TX

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ckoelliker

the link does not seem to be working, are u sure is ok?

--------------------------
If life turns its back on you....then grab it by the buttocks!

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09-17-2007 01:49 PM  10 years agoPost 13
lowflyer101

rrKey Veteran

garden grove, CA

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i been using minititan tail blade on trex450, it work lot better than any align tail blade. it look lot familar to Bob/Kevin tail blade.

i wanted to try Bob/Kevin tail balde, it come with so cool color to match

<-freedoom flyer->

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09-17-2007 02:38 PM  10 years agoPost 14
bsoder

rrNovice

Mesa, AZ

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here's a pic

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09-17-2007 02:46 PM  10 years agoPost 15
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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Here's the NIX tail I posted about. Note the mass balance weights on the hub. I never understood what they were for, until now...

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=1088

Supposed to be a very good tail system- anyone out there have experience with it?

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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09-17-2007 03:39 PM  10 years agoPost 16
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...

I agree the testing isn't the most scientific, but the use of self servo blades can be tested easily...Put a set of stockers on backwards...the blade axis will now cause the blades to be divergent, and i'd bet tail wag will be the result...The beauty of this mod is the ease with which it can be done, and the fact that it costs so little...The Nix t/r assy is beautiful, and I'd bet Align has something in the works....Blades with balance tabs could work also, but I don't have the ability to make them...this mod actually reduces the forces acting on the entire t/r assy, as well as making life a lot easier for the t/r servo....
Next step...A few tests with the 600....

John.

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09-17-2007 05:51 PM  10 years agoPost 17
tabbytabbrrElite Veteran - seattle - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It works,

Check out the Joker tail grips for another implementation of this technique

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09-17-2007 10:17 PM  10 years agoPost 18
mr70ss

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Spokane, WA

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So any bets as to when we'll start seeing "new improved" tail grips from the after market companies??

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09-17-2007 10:55 PM  10 years agoPost 19
bilbo

rrVeteran

Boston, MA - USA

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Is this anything like the Gazaur heli tail blades? From the blurb on Hobby Lobby's site about the Gazaur tail blades:
Added aerodynamic weight at the root of the leading edge of the blade increases rotor efficiency at low RPM. This means your tail stays locked-in during violent 3D maneuvers.

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09-17-2007 11:04 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Edders

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Suffolk,UK

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when I spoke to colin hes was saying to put the weight on to one side so as to aid the natural position for counteractiont eh rotor twist his idea was just to put a longer blade grip bolt on test then maybe add small nut or too until the grips track at around the 5degree mark

Edders

Sponsored by Real Raptors and CSM

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T-REX 450 › AMAZING new tail mod by Finle$$ and friends..
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