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09-16-2007 07:21 PM  10 years agoPost 1
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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ok...lets take this to another level

lets "assume" for the next few pages that all these conspiracies out there are true. (someone will say something about the word itself)

now what?

what changes?

we are still in the same hole if not worse than we were before.

does it make ANY difference if true or not?

I don't see it...what i do see is more red tape.

Perhaps someone can educate me on this.

National Deficit? still going up
Less taxation? yeah right
better public education?...here in florida? HA!
my taxes and my expenses? see national deficit.
communications? good luck with you privacy.
security? where?
secured borders? when?

Call me a "pessimist" if you like but bottom line is that one possible good change on anything potentially ruins another two...lather rinse repeat.

I rather call myself a "realist".

Feel free to debate it like it or hate it...just further proving that to divide and conquer is easier than to unite as one.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-17-2007 12:42 AM  10 years agoPost 2
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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OK Pete: I guess I will bite. No CTs' just my take on the situation.
Lets start after WW2. America was starting to boom. Companies needed workers, and good ones. To get those workers, the American Dream was created. Joe, if you go to work for us, do us a good job, we will take care of you. You get paid ins, sick time, 2 weeks vacation, and the retirement package will make you confortable for life, after you retire. Well, Joe buys the program. Dedicates his life to the company, because the company will take care of him, and so it goes. Joe has a home, 2 cars in the drive, wife stays home and takes care of the kids. Everything is good. Kids go to school to learn and prosper, looking forward to college because they bought the dream also. Everyone is going to prosper. Everyone is happy. Remember those days.?
Well, along comes the 60s', vietnam war, still everyone is making money. Jobs are plentiful, and everyone prospers, things are still good. Kids in college, money in the bank, and Joe is now looking farword to retirement. He has done his part, company has done their part and everything is looking good.
Now comes the 70s', Vietnam war ends, economy starts taking a dip. Joe ain't worried, he is still doing his part. But, on the horizon looms a problem.
Companies that hired all the Joes back in the 40s' and 50s' suddenly woke up to the fact that they are fixing to have to pay quite a bit of money for all these Joes, that are approaching retirement.
About this same time, rules in the work place seemed to have changed. Mergers and buy outs became the thing.
Old Joe shows up for work one day, only to find out that his job has been eleminated by his new employer. Sorry Joe, heres your severance package, and good luck. Sound familiar??
At about this same time frame, 1970, the dumbing down our education system began. Bussing kids all over the city , for racial balance, suddenly more moms are out looking for jobs, due to prices on everything rising so rapidly, taxes going up, shortage of gasoline, etc. Nixon is now President and suddenly everything is in short supply, and prices going up, up, and up. Gasoline in in 1969/70 was around 25 to 35 cents a gallon, in 1973 its .75 cents and a year later it was $1.00. Arab oil embargo, so we were told.
Lots of mergers and buy outs still going on, and all those Joes, loosing out. Don't get me wrong, lots of guys did make the cut and did retire. Lots didn't
Now, comes the 80s', and the era of outsourcing. No one really paid much attention to where their Nikes were made. Other products didn't garner much attention. We did have a great influx of foreign cars. Some bought em, some laughed at em, but they just kept coming. Bought a Datsun pickup in 1970, just for the fuel mileage. Best pickup, from maintenance standpoint, that I have ever owned.
Any way, the outsourcing grew. Suddenly, in Texas, we started to see a large influx of what we called "Snowbirds". Folks from mainly Michigan. Come to find out, they had lost their jobs, due to Chrysler , Ford, or General Motors , moving to Mexico. They could no longer sustain the taxes, house payments etc. So, they sold out and moved south, to escape the high cost of living in the east. Hence the name Escapees. Now a nation wide group of people that live in RVs. and travel trailers.
Bye the 90s' we started hearing about something called NAFTA. H.Ross Perot was running for President at about this time, and he warned us about NAFTA.His comment was, if NAFTA was passed, the next thing you would hear was a "Great Sucking Sound" and that would be your jobs, going to Mexico,. Ask an auto worker about that one. As all of you have noticed, the US doesn't manufacture much of anything anymore. We are expected to make it , off of a Service related economy?
I don't really grasp that term, but in my mind, without a manufacturing base, steady growth doesn't seem possible. What we have now, is an economy, based of consumer spending. Do the math. Ninety cents in the jar, and a dollar out, doesn't make for much growth. Don't forget, those high dollar jobs that left the country were replaced by, on the average 25% less income to the guy that lost it. And thats if he was lucky. The middle class of this country is under attack, due to greed of the major corporations that made their money off the backs of the working class Americans.
Not to worry, profits are up, benefits are down, and big business is happy, for how long, we don't know.
Keep in mind, NAFTA benefitted one country. Mexico. We already had free trade with Canada. The main beneficiary of NAFTA, is coporate America, not the American working man.
Next to go, if the NAU is successful, if the NAFTA corridor is built, and the Mexican trucks start rolling. American dock workers, American truckers. Wages will tank, and our economy will tank with em.
Keep in mind, many Mexican trucking companies, are subsidiaries of Large American Corportions. Again, profits up, wages down. If this mess is not turned around, the middle class can hang it up.
Now, lets consider this, and its not a CT. 9/11 and the war.
Ask yourself this question! How in the world, did 19 ragheads, Arabs,or whatever you use to describe em, manage to pull off and attack, on the most heavely defended air space in the world.?? Can you, for a minute, imagine the logistics of such an operation.? And consider the timing of it. To hit it on the one day that our air defense is standing down, for whatever reason. The war games that we were conducting were, TOP SECRET.Meaning, only on a need to know basis, would you have any idea that they were going on. Anyway, it happened. No need to discuss it, but much need to think about the impossible odds of it being successful.
Now, the war. Americans are always loathe to go to war. No one wants its, unless they have a very good reason. Well, 9/11 gave us good reason. Just like Pearl Harbor, patriotism wells up, and just go do whatever. But remember, wars are always fought for money, and not many other reasons. We all gave the go ahead, so we can't really grip without getting double damned for being un American.
What most Americans don't realize is that this war is not about 9/11, its about the oil god. We went to Afghanistan to get the Taliban and Bin Laden. Thats what we are told and what many believe.
No one has mentioned the Turkmistan Pipeline, that Unocal has been trying to get pushed thru Afghanistan, since the late 80s' and early 90s'. This is not a CT. Google it up. its there. Billions of dollars at stake.
Going to war in Iraq was for the oil. More than one way to skin a cat. The oil doesn't have to flow, it can sit in the ground and make money. Gas prices on 9/11 were around $1.50 a gallon. Check em out today. I just paid $2.699 last nite. If Iraq never ships another barrel, it is making money for the oil companies. Keeps the price up. All we hear is shortage due to China and other emerging economies. Shortage of refining capacity. Well, there was no shortage prior to the Iraq war. Wonder what happened in so short a time span.
Well, thats my take on things. I hope the war ends tomorrow, and our guys get home safely. I support em, but don't think they should be there. Not for the program that I described.

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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09-17-2007 12:43 AM  10 years agoPost 3
A. Bundy

rrElite Veteran

Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of​Chicago

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How do we know this post is not part of it?

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09-17-2007 12:47 AM  10 years agoPost 4
jimco

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east texas

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Bundy: Don't understant the question??

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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09-17-2007 12:48 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Dragon2115

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New England

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National Deficit? still going up

Do you have a home morgage, car loan, credit cards? You will find that most people have a higher debt to income ratio than the country does. So why is it ok when it's personal debt?

Less taxation? yeah right

Tried that. We made a flat percentage reduction and then people whined about how the people that didn't pay any taxes at all didn't get a refund. But don't worry, with the Dems in control of Congress and possibly the White House in a little over a year that will be rectified. With the tax hike you can expect from them, for the children, you'll be able to feel better soon.

better education? here in florida? HA!

Local issue so deal with it. We instituted standardized testing in my state to try and measure the quality of the education students were getting and to try an be sure they actually knew something when they graduated. The teachers unions have done nothing but complain because, heaven forbid they actually be held to any kind of standards or accountability.

my taxes and my expenses? see national deficit.

Already covered. But here's a good one for you since we're talking about it. My town has property tax overrides one after another because they claim we need more police, fire, teachers, and school repairs. But somehow they managed to find enough money to redo the local soccer field with new sod and irrigation system to the tune of $900,000 plus annual maintenance. Nice huh. Lets spend money on stuff we don't need while at the same time raising taxes to pay for the things that we do need. Sounds like excellent financial planning and management doesn't it.

communications? good luck with you privacy.

When do you think your communications weren't being monitored? Ever heard of Carnivore? Ever wonder how J. Edgar Hoover managed to stay as head of the FBI for so long even though politicians of both parties wanted him gone? The only difference between then and now is that more of it can be held against you in court than before.

security? where?

Security is nothing more than an illusion. It makes the weak feel safe even when they aren't. But whether you're willing to admit it or not border security is better than it was 10 years ago. Is it what it needs to be? No, not by a long shot, but there's no way we're going to fix a problem that's been neglected for decades in just six years. That's just being realistic about it.

secured borders? when?

Don't know, probably when the Dems stop pandering to the illegals for votes and the Repubs stop pandering to them for cheap labor. Or the next major terrorist attack within the CONUS, whichever comes first. Sadly I think we both know which one that's going to be.

Personally I can't believe the story I read recently about the woman (illegal alien) who was holed up in a church until she decided to come out to protest the immigration bill. She was arrested and deported back to Mexico where she's now lobbying the Mexican government to protect the rights of Mexicans illegally in other countries.

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09-17-2007 01:04 AM  10 years agoPost 6
Dragon2115

rrKey Veteran

New England

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Jimco

The reason the UAW lost so many jobs is because like most unions they got greedy. Sorry to tell you this but if you go on strike until the doof that installs tires and lug nuts on the assembly line gets $15/hr plus bennies (1987), not to mention when the moto is "good enough" and the final quality shows it, then it isn't long before you price yourself out of the market. That's simple economics.

Next refinery short falls have been predicted for quite some time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if consumption is going up and every time you try to build a refinery you run into the NIMBY crowd then it won't be long until there's a problem.

The main reason oil prices are so high is because of the speculators. Every time a flea farts that might make a tanker alter its course by an angstrom they drive the price of a barrel up. That's called market manipulation and absolutely it should be stopped. But there not much you can do about it in a free market economy. Unless you'd prefer government regulation...

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09-17-2007 01:26 AM  10 years agoPost 7
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

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jimco

I agree with most of what you wrote....But not the reasons.

The workforce in the US is shifting from manual to service. Thats pretty normal as a society progresses. Most people do not want to work in a field all day for very little money, so they don't. The problem is that is an important job and it has to be done. The Romans used slaves since no Roman wanted to get his hands dirty digging a ditch for the bathroom.

You don't like to over pay for goods, why should a company? Outsourcing happens because we expect to pay less for things and companies have to make money.

We could get rid of outsourcing....But we had all better be ready to pay for goods and services. We could quit buying foreign cars....I tried, but my last two Fords sucked...My next car will be an import since they last longer, cost less, and get better service.

Auto workers unions demanded more money every year and the products just got more expensive and the quality does not match imports for the money. I am not willing to pay 5 grand more for half the car just cause it was made in the US anymore.

I am part of the problem...I keep hoping that Americans wake up, but it is not likely to happen. People LIKE to shop at walmart. People like their Align, Thunder tiger, and Hirobo heli's.

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09-17-2007 01:28 AM  10 years agoPost 8
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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lets "assume" for the next few pages that all these conspiracies out there are true....
OK fine. sounds like fun.
National Deficit? still going up
Less taxation? yeah right
Yup!!!! This all powerfull secret government spends trillions on fake moon landings, and organizing thousands of co-conspirators from the poplulation blow up their neighbors in order to get itself into a huge mess. They are wasting my tax dollars!!!! I want cheap cigarets!!! and free beer!!! lots of free beer!!! Whats wrong with these people?!!!

Elvis says hi.
Call me a "pessimist"
I think we are well beyond that...

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09-17-2007 01:44 AM  10 years agoPost 9
rcstickman

rrApprentice

Florida

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Every time a flea farts that might make a tanker alter its course by an angstrom they drive the price of a barrel up.
I love that, really I do, I'm gonna use that if you don't mind.

Don't blame me, I did'nt vote for him.

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09-17-2007 02:13 AM  10 years agoPost 10
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Here is another good market force:http://rawstory-com/news/2005/Group...e_up__0907.html
I believe this , more than oil shortage.

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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09-17-2007 02:23 PM  10 years agoPost 11
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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and a good morning to all...

lets see...where to start...I'll work my way back.

For those that did not get it...click HERE

***
Ron...
enjoy reading your "posts"...and yes, I'm also part of the problem "under duress" and why I drive what is considered the top family sedan as per consumers report...an american magazine(?)
Unfortunately quality does not seem to be a priority...some call it greed others called it lack of common sense or both. Quality cost and unfortunately not all consumers can afford it.

After all...we just cant be the best at everything can we? But we definitely should strive for it.

***
Dragon...
So why is it ok when it's personal debt?
It's not! BUT to put it in perspective the difference between national deficit and personal is that one affects us all while the other is just that...a personal problem and perhaps directly linked to the education received or lack thereof.
Less taxation? yeah right

Tried that. We made a flat percentage reduction and then people whined about how the people that didn't pay any taxes at all didn't get a refund.
once again it points at education...but understanding is another issue.
better education? here in florida? HA!

Local issue so deal with it.
dont have to...MY kids already are in college so let the younger generation deal with it. Taking the not my problem anymore attitude as many seem to do. When in rome?

Besides the here in florida was a "follow up" question...well...actually more like a mockery.

BUT I will add the word public to make it easier for others.
communications? good luck with you privacy.

When do you think your communications weren't being monitored?
Prior to 1978...ask Jimco.
Personally I can't believe the story I read recently about the woman (illegal alien) who was holed up in a church until she decided to come out to protest the immigration bill.
Whether YOU believe it or not...it does not make any difference anyways. Especially living across the pond there mate.

***
Jimco...
great history lesson...being in my late 40's...seen it happen and later understood it...per say.

But still does not answer the main question which I have made it bold now...not for you but for the others that did not contribute "accordingly". Now it sounds like I'm being serious.

But seriously...some see the whole picture while others focus on hot girls thread.

To clarify...

WHAT difference does it make NOW...IF all these conspiracies were true?

The scenario TODAY does not change whether they are true or not since these incidences have already taken place in history.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-17-2007 04:06 PM  10 years agoPost 12
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

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Jimco.

Although I don't agree with the reasoning behind some of your post, I think it's your best compiled post to date.

That's a compliment.

... But honey it was only $$$

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09-17-2007 08:15 PM  10 years agoPost 13
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Thanks Kook: YOu see, Im not crazy, all the time, hehehe

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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09-17-2007 10:26 PM  10 years agoPost 14
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Im not crazy, all the time,
We knew that all along...its the other times that worry us.

Lipos charged...off to fly...later.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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09-18-2007 01:10 AM  10 years agoPost 15
flipped2left

rrKey Veteran

indianapolis,in.

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I want a job! i need a job! i'm willing to do the work that other americans won't do! wait a minnit! i'm american! but i'm willing to do jobs that other americans won't do! but i'm not going to work in a service field for a mere 2-5 an hr.!! where i hump my ass and make sure everything is working for the rich clientele, been there, done that! but i was making 13.00 an hr. to just put up with the whiny ass babyfied members of the club, would i do it again?? yes i would for 13.00 an hr. not no 5 or 6 an hr' tho.
my rent is like... 450.00 a month, working a menial job at even 5 an hr. i will barely have enough left for food and utilities. i have been out of work for 3 yrs.,what i do make is mostly for survival. my heli's have been on the back burner for 3 yrs. already, been trying to sell some stuff(pawnshop is my last resort) just to get back to even, ain't happening!, sorry just ranting here!!

Smile! people will wonder what you're up to!!

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09-18-2007 07:35 AM  10 years agoPost 16
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

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I want a job! i need a job! ... i was making 13.00 an hr... would i do it again?? yes i would for 13.00 an hr. not no 5 or 6 an hr' tho.
I guess you don't NEED a job. If you're willing to do it for $13/hour and the next guy is willing to do it for $12/hour, guess what...

So this is supposed to be a conspiracy thread. Who's conspiring to keep you from getting a job?

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09-18-2007 01:39 PM  10 years agoPost 17
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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my rent is like... 450.00 a month, working a menial job at even 5 an hr. i will barely have enough left for food and utilities. i have been out of work for 3 yrs.
5 dollars and hour is better than zero/hr.

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09-18-2007 02:05 PM  10 years agoPost 18
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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So this is supposed to be a conspiracy thread. Who's conspiring to keep you from getting a job?
Vicente Fox?

Know the feeling of making big bucks...getting laid off and having to start over again while competing with kids 1/2 my age and 1/4 of knowledge at practically half where you were.

but you know what?

as long as you have bills to pay and a family to feed...you have to SWALLOW your pride and go with the flow until something better comes along.

Being a handyman helps out...dont have skills? get them or learn. Even cutting grass gets money in your pocket.

Its a dog eat dog world out there and NO one is going to come and get you and take you under their wing.

Then there's the sugar mama...but you better be good looking and pleasurable to be with. Plenty of those in southeast coast off florida.

Unfortunately THAT is reality.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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