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HelicopterAlignOther › Trex 600N Pro. Radio Interference.
09-15-2007 03:07 PM  10 years agoPost 1
SPB

rrElite Veteran

Athens - Greece

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Did any of you ever experience glitches from your Trex? I went today for the maiden flight of my 600N Pro. I did half of the first tank on the ground, as the Hyper is brand new and then very low hover for the rest of the tank. So far so good.

2nd tank and I start making very gentle figure 8’s and suddenly an abrupt momentarily lockout. I landed immediately the heli to check what was wrong. I though maybe it was the engine as the main needle was 3 turns open and I raise the throttle again. When the heli was about to lift off I noticed the throttle to close instantly to the fail safe position.

The RX is not new. I was flying with this RX my Raptor 50 and never had a problem. I changed the Xtal with a new one in a different frequency. Initially I had no lock outs but after a while the problem returned so it’s not the Xtal.

I’ll try the RX I am flying my 90 but did anyone else experience any other interference problems in the Trex 600N Pro? Is there something that I should check?

I built the heli very carefully and I consider my self as an experience builder.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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09-15-2007 03:44 PM  10 years agoPost 2
3Dx

rrElite Veteran

Monterrey NL

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From the first day I install the Antenna of my 2 600N far away from CF and no Glitches at all..

Is your Antenna near the Carbon Fiber????

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09-15-2007 03:53 PM  10 years agoPost 3
CBitt

rrNovice

Ottawa, Ks

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I'm flying 2 different T-Rex 600 Pro's and have had no issues on a DX-7, Align 2-in-1 regulator, and Rev Max limiter.

It would be helpful if you provide a little more information about your setup. Are you running any type of speed controller? What voltage are you running? What servo is on the throttle? Are you using a regulator? If so, which one? There is quite a bit of discussion about the Align regulators.

Good luck...

Too stupid to stop!

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09-15-2007 03:55 PM  10 years agoPost 4
tauscnc

rrKey Veteran

Joliet IL

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I could never get my Raptor 90SE (carbon sides) to not lock out. Afer the 2nd, sending in my JR 9303 on PCM, changing Rx, channels, etc..no luck.

I am sure this is not the answer you are looking for but...ditch the radio and get the DX7. Rapto 90SE is rock solid, 600N Pro, Trex 450 SE, all my planes, ROCK SOLID.

I spent half a flying season trying to get my 90 glitch free and never could on PCM.

Just my experience,
taus
http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com

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09-15-2007 04:23 PM  10 years agoPost 5
marco

rrApprentice

Santa Rosa , Ca -​USA

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Make sure none of your servo wires are touching any moving parts .

I had a similar "glitching" problem and it turned out the throttle servo wire was being chewed up by the clutch gear and shorting out .

Good Luck

Marc

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09-15-2007 04:38 PM  10 years agoPost 6
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to​hell

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make sure the engine shaft nut is tight and also ensure the fan hub is clamped on tight, i had this come loose, dont know how as i tightened them right up, (probably a lack of loctite).
the other glitch i found came from the starter shaft the grub screws that hold the hex coupling on had some how managed to rotate carving a ring in the shaft and constantly turning in flight causeing metal to metal rf noise.
Darren

A.K.A 509

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09-15-2007 04:50 PM  10 years agoPost 7
SPB

rrElite Veteran

Athens - Greece

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Thanks for the replys so far.

Well as CBitt asked and it was my fault I didn't mention it earlier my setup is as follows

- OS Hyper (brand new)
- Muscle Pipe II
- 3 x 9451 cyclic servos (brand new)
- 1 x JR 811 on throttle (used but never caused a problem so far)
- Futaba 611 w/9256 servo (brand new)
- Futaba GV1 (used but never caused a problem). In order to
eliminate this as well as a possible cause I bypassed the governor
and hook the throttle servo directly to the RX. No luck.
- Fromeco Relion 2600 (brand new)
- Arizona Regulator (brand new). 6V on the servos and 5V on the gyro
- JR 9ch PCM RX (used never caused a problem. As already mentioned
was flying till recently my Raptor 50 with absolutely no problems
but in any case will look at it).
The antenna is the QUK base loaded. It is also under investigation
even if never had cause problems on the past and was correctly
installed. I install it on the heli using a plastic spaced in
order not to touch the CF frames.
- The TX is a JR 9XII.

Hope above will help. Maybe it's time to upgrade to a Spectrum TX but I am trying to postpone it untill the 9X will be available. A 7ch system is not enough.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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09-15-2007 05:17 PM  10 years agoPost 8
AzHyper

rrKey Veteran

Peoria, Az.

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I have a carbon 600 with JR649 standard antenna in a tube tie wrapped to one of the carbon boom supports. No issues so far - probably 50+ flights.

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09-16-2007 01:56 AM  10 years agoPost 9
johnco61

rrNovice

uk

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I’ve experienced a similar problem today myself, I used a gallon of fuel last week just hovering etc to run in a new hyper. Today I started stall turns and faster flight, on a high-speed pass I had a big glitch followed by two more before bringing it in. Hovered it on the next tank, lazy 8’s etc no problem, as soon as I went into faster flight another big glitch, had to bring it in. Can’t find any problems, I’ve moved the antenna now so will try it tomorrow
The thing I can’t understand is it wasn’t a lock out! It was the type of glitch I’ve had in the past using PPM, when I’ve had this type of glitch I’ve put in a PCM receiver and it’s sorted. This is the first time I’ve experienced a glitch using a PCM receiver my Raptor has never had a problem.
I asked someone a couple of weeks ago how his new T-rex performed before I finished building mine, he said great, he put it in the air to show me what it could do and had a major glitch he nearly lost it, again it seemed to be during fast flight. I don’t know if he sorted it but it seems there’s a problem with the T-rex that one or two people are experiencing

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09-16-2007 02:10 AM  10 years agoPost 10
1VERTOL

rrApprentice

San Diego, CA

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2.4 ghz, no problems at all.

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09-16-2007 02:28 AM  10 years agoPost 11
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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If you're experiencing a classic ppm glitch on pcm, its not a lockout... its a servo, check your servos one by one under load (hold the head with the finger) and make it work hard.

I had a 9252 on a freya collective and it happen to me. On one flight, suddently the heli went full negative for less than half a second, I thought "damm wind" and kept flying. On the second flight, I took off about 1 inch over the ground and bam, the heli sat down again... couldn't lift it anymore so I went to check the servo and initially it was moving fine on both ways but as soon as I would apply a load on it, it only would move one way and not hold the position.

I have a 600N, quickUK base loaded (mounted under the front right skid pointing forwards) and I'm on 35Mhz and never experienced a glitch

my 2 cents
Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-16-2007 11:31 AM  10 years agoPost 12
SPB

rrElite Veteran

Athens - Greece

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Well I think I made a major progress today. I also suspected my servos as tchavei said and I still put a small possibility on them but all cyclic servos are brand new out of the box.

As they came with very short lead I have used a lead extension for the one that is installed on the back of the heli so I will also investigate if this might cause a problem but today I went to the field again. I made a first flight and as I was hovering the heli took suddenly a front elevator command. That was as all previous times momentarily so I immediately landed.

I refuel and put a pair of head loaders. I did the whole tank with no intereferences at all with them. Then I switched my Radix blades with some cheap glass blades. I did that not because I was susspecting the blades but to avoid crashing my Radix. So I made one more tank with no interferences. So I switched back to Radix and there it is. I had a severe intereference. Landed and switced back to head loaders. No problem. Then switch to the cheap blades. I did had a very light intereference but not what I was experiencing with the Radix. Switch back to Radix and again a huge intereference.

So with all the above I think the problem is issolated to the head.

And my question is. Does anyone of you ever heard a similar case? Blades causing intereferences? I have the plastic blade grips so I am thinking to buy the metal ones in order the blades to be grounded to the rest of the heli.

I should mention that yesterday night I eliminated the only carbon to carbon contact that I noticed in the heli and this is where the frames are touching the base plate. I install in all 6 bolts a very thin shim so now the frames are not touching the base plate.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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09-16-2007 11:33 AM  10 years agoPost 13
SPB

rrElite Veteran

Athens - Greece

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Also I forgot. Tony I think it's not a classic PPM glitch cause I have set my throttle to go to idle in case of lock out. So I am test flying the heli without canopy and observe the throttle servo arm and is goes momenterily in idle. So I believe it locks out momentarily and as I am saying above it looks like that the problem is isolated in the head.

Any ideas?


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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09-16-2007 11:45 AM  10 years agoPost 14
johnco61

rrNovice

uk

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All the gear in my T-rex is new, I suppose in theory there could be a problem with the servos but un-lightly. If I move over to 2.4 GHz I assume I will still get the same problem, if the servos are responding to interference through the carbon frames or metal to metal contact directly, then the receiver signal wouldn’t make any difference even at 2.4 GHz the servos would still glitch.
I’m using Ace servos they are in a metal body; I don’t know if that would make them more or less responsive to interference, the new JR 770 gyro has been put into a metal jacket to supposedly shield it from interference

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09-16-2007 12:00 PM  10 years agoPost 15
Saleh

rrVeteran

Kuwait

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I had the same issue check the clutch or you can rout a ground wire 2 the boom 2 solve this issue, but at first check the clutch

If you aint crashing you aint flyin

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09-16-2007 12:07 PM  10 years agoPost 16
johnco61

rrNovice

uk

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If you set only your throttle to idle then the rest of the servos should hold their position, so you shouldn’t get a glitch type fault during a lockout. If it’s only a momentarily lockout the throttle servo should be the only servo to move.

John

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09-16-2007 12:13 PM  10 years agoPost 17
johnco61

rrNovice

uk

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Are you saying the clutch could be slipping? Someone I know had this lockout/glitch type problem after replacing his clutch, perfect before hand so you could have a point.

John

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09-16-2007 12:58 PM  10 years agoPost 18
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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My 9252 servo had 10 flights on it, so I can say it was "new".

In a pcm lockout, unless you change it, all servos go on hold and throttle to idle so what have should happen is that you loose control for brief moments. What you are discribing is a sudden glitch ("took suddenly a front elevator command" which shouldn't happen on pcm.

The blade theory is interesting though.

let us know how you go.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-16-2007 01:37 PM  10 years agoPost 19
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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This is interesting- I don't fly a 600 nitro, but have a 600E, three 450E's and several other electrics.

We in the electric community have often had glitches, most of the time PCM receiver solves the problem. It did for me until yesterday (more on that later). I flew PPM receivers until I upgraded to carbon fiber frames on the little 450's, then there were glitching problems intermittently, and location of the equipment was critical. I noticed moving the gyro (GY401) away from the tail belt/pulley helped for me (others have no problem). Putting silicone spray on the belt helped a lot. It was worse in dry weather, worse as the tail loads got higher in forward flight or flips other "3D" manuevers. Get the point?.... static discharge. The carbon frame amplified the Rf noise in some way, and the PPM receiver would glitch. Long leads on servos made it worse. This points to the extension on your elevator servo. Like I said, a PCM receiver made all that go away.

When I got my Trex 600E, it got a PCM right away. Flies nice- I once had one momentary lockout (was a lockout, everything held and the throttle held position- that's the way I have it), that was several months ago, I replaced the servos (wanted to upgrade) and did not ever see the lockout again...

...Until yesterday. Twice in one flight, the heli glitched or locked out (I am not sure which, because I was manuevering, so going flat pitch was a bad thing at that point). The heli just dipped hard, first time just a brief fraction of a second, the next (it was inverted at this time) a full second- seemed like forever- luckily I had some altitude and was able to save it. I landed and went over everything- all servos were fine under load, but one boom brace was loose at the rear mount- tightened that and checked the other three screws, a couple were slightly loose (I need to do better pre-flights). I also wrapped the antenna where it passes that boom brace with some foam tape, and tie wrapped it into position better.

Three more flights yesterday, and everything is working great. It was very dry and cool yesterday- good conditions for static build up. Your carbon fiber Radix blades may have something to do with static build up on your machine. I suggest switching to a full length antenna, grounding the boom and carbon frame, and checking all metal-to-metal connections to see that they are secure. And put a ferrite choke on the elevator servo lead.

Hope that helps some, good luck and happy flying.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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09-16-2007 05:52 PM  10 years agoPost 20
SPB

rrElite Veteran

Athens - Greece

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Very good info guys. Thanks. Well as I investigate further I discover ever more "flaws" I had heat shrunk tube over the governor sensor and as it is very tight in there this extra tubing made the clutch bell rubbing against the sensor. So this should be a major generator of static.

I suppose I was not getting glitches while I had the head loaders because the heli was not airborne so it was grounded.

So I am gonna ground my boom with the frames and investigate all the rest and will return with what I found.

Thanks for all good info so far.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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HelicopterAlignOther › Trex 600N Pro. Radio Interference.
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