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› You Guys Ready For A123 Battery Tech?
09-15-2007 10:57 AM  10 years agoPost 1
AirCowboy

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Staunton,VA - USA

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Just wanted to touch base on something that I have been following for a while now.
For those of you that havent heard of A123 systems, I thought I would do a small info post, and see what you guys have to say about it.

A123 Systems, has been working on a battery that can out perform anything on the market of todays battery standards by every aspect.
A123 cells compared to lipos, are lighter, chemical free, bio safe, more powerful, can produce higher discharge rates, thousands of cycles, and to top it off can be charged to 90% capacity in under 5 minutes!
We're talking 20+ minute flights for a scale heli, with a 5-6 minute charge time.

I dont know about you, but I feel with this sorta future, electrics will make combustion engines obsolete in every way.
I know I still love my gasser engines, but who wants the trouble and constant maintenance issues involved if you can get a better angle from every aspect on your investment?
Anyhow, let me know your feelings on this. Josh

PS. A123 systems web site> http://www.a123systems.com

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09-15-2007 12:29 PM  10 years agoPost 2
ROSSM

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UK

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STOP PRESS: CORRECT VERSION.

Now see Lithium Manganese http://www.first-products.de.
. . .and my sincere apologies for the url finger trouble!. also I know about the voltage/current differences...I think of safety though!..

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09-15-2007 12:57 PM  10 years agoPost 3
martinic

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NB, Canada

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Heh,heh! You may as well post about amazing new 2.4Ghz radio technology too.

A123 M1s are well known in R/C and widely used. Have been for moe than a year now. If only they were more readily available to modelers in loose cell form and/or commercial R/C packs at a reasonable price. For now, we strip apart power tool packs and chuck away the excess parts.

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09-15-2007 01:19 PM  10 years agoPost 4
CloudyIFR

rrApprentice

Montana

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Look on eBay for Dewalt DC9360 36V battery pack.

Mini-HowTo - Disassembly of a DeWalt 36v Battery

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587606

Mini-HowTo - How To Build a Battery Pack from A123 Cells

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599316

However, I'd use the Solderless Power Tubes from MEC

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com...duct.php?pid=29

Curtis

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09-15-2007 06:15 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington​Formerly: Captain​Chaos

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ROSSM
Were you serious about the Manganese? You're link is broken and I couldn't find the site you were trying to point to and the last time I compared Manganese based Lithium Ion to Cobalt based Lithium Ion Manganese provided higher current but about half the capacity of Cobalt - So lots of power but short run time - BTW Manganese Lithium Ion was concocted in the mid '90s so not really all that new

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09-15-2007 06:22 PM  10 years agoPost 6
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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I would buy these cells if I could find a good cheap charger for them.

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09-15-2007 06:32 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Pyrock

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SF Bay Area

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Where can one get these cells????? And would the CCHV ESC's work with them in...say...12-16 cell configuration?

Trex 500, Stretched Logo 10 3D, Ion-X, Gaui 200

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09-16-2007 12:01 AM  10 years agoPost 8
AirCowboy

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Staunton,VA - USA

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Huh, didnt know it was such a huge issue already.
Thats my luck, to get on the band wagon late!
Oh well, there are still plenty that may not know about them.
Thanks for the links.

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09-16-2007 02:21 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington​Formerly: Captain​Chaos

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A123Racing was making R/C packs with some variable voltage "Turbo Module" thing
http://www.a123racing.com/

ShellDude did a write up on RR and RCU a year ago
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4730405/tm.htm

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09-16-2007 03:10 AM  10 years agoPost 10
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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> I would buy these cells if I could find a good cheap charger
> for them.

These cells are actually so tolerant that you don't even need a charger. How about the cost of a couple feet of 18g zip cord? That's right, you can actually charge a 3S A123 pack straight from a 12 V lead acid battery (car battery or deep cycle battery) using only a length of wire to limit the initial charge current to about 10A.

They don't even need to be balanced as they self balance if you use them hard.

You can also charge certain cell counts of A123 with a LiPo charger by setting it to a lower cell count.

Lot's of great discussion about ways to charge them, both cheap and not so cheap, can be found here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525664

- John

RR rules!

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09-16-2007 03:27 PM  10 years agoPost 11
Pyrock

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SF Bay Area

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I'm thinking of trying a pair of these in my IonX but not sure if my CC85HV can handle it. Anyone know?

http://bigerc.com/product_info.php?...b6102d6f7d0325b

Trex 500, Stretched Logo 10 3D, Ion-X, Gaui 200

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09-16-2007 04:49 PM  10 years agoPost 12
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Pyrock,
How many 'S' are you thinking? The CC85HV is rated at 12S LiPo so it should handle 14S A123 no problem. Keep in mind that the best way to use the A123 cells is to over-gear by a several hundred headspeed RPM and then back down on the governor. It gets the cells into a current/voltage regime that they operate better at. If you just swap out a 12S LiPo for a 14S A123 w/o adjusting the gearing, you may be disappointed.

Lot's of good info on all this over on rcgroups. Look up posts by Gary Goodrum.

- John

RR rules!

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09-16-2007 05:45 PM  10 years agoPost 13
Pyrock

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SF Bay Area

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If you just swap out a 12S LiPo for a 14S A123 w/o adjusting the gearing, you may be disappointed
Actually, it was 14s A123 in place of a 10S lipo setup. I heard 12S A123 should do it.

It looks like I would have to go either Lipo or A123 but NOT both interchangeably. Bummer.

If I go strictly A123, what kind of flight times can I expect from a 12S A123 with the propper gearing? Is performance close to that of a 10S 3700 (25C)?

Trex 500, Stretched Logo 10 3D, Ion-X, Gaui 200

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09-16-2007 05:48 PM  10 years agoPost 14
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Pyrock,
10S LiPo to 14S A123 would probably work out just fine with no gearing or headspeed changes. I was thinking 12S LiPo versus 14S A123.

- John

RR rules!

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09-16-2007 05:51 PM  10 years agoPost 15
Pyrock

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SF Bay Area

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Thanks!! I may have to get a Dewalt pack and gut it just to be sure that 7 packs placed side-by-side will fit on one side of an IonX. If so, it's back to Home Depot for another pack.

Trex 500, Stretched Logo 10 3D, Ion-X, Gaui 200

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09-17-2007 05:32 AM  10 years agoPost 16
CloudyIFR

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Montana

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Adapt your current charger for A123's here:

http://www.slkelectronics.com/lipodapter/index.htm

Curtis

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09-17-2007 06:14 AM  10 years agoPost 17
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington​Formerly: Captain​Chaos

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09-18-2007 12:42 AM  10 years agoPost 18
AirCowboy

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Staunton,VA - USA

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Well, you guys might have known about it before, but its generating good conversation! Anyhow, I am also curious, how much longer of a flight time than that of a li-po setup would A-123 typically yield?
I can read the numbers all day, and still not realize the actual improvements vs another type. I need some layman's terms!
I need to learn more about batteries

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09-18-2007 01:33 AM  10 years agoPost 19
CloudyIFR

rrApprentice

Montana

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Assuming similar voltages then a Lipo is normally a tad bit lighter than an A123 which means you'll require less power to hover but with all that said, for the basics it comes down to milliamphours (mah).

A123's are 2300mah. If your Lipo has more mah's then you'll get longer flight time, if it's less, then you'll get less. It's pretty much that simple.

Curtis
Montana

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09-18-2007 11:30 AM  10 years agoPost 20
AirCowboy

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Staunton,VA - USA

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Yeah, but I thought the A123 series was suposed to be so much better than Li-Po's?
What exactly are you getting outa the A123 cells over the Li-Po's, is what Im trying to ask.

I know they wont catch fire, but other than that, is there any other real advantages making their claims worth while?

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