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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Predator clutch ?
09-14-2007 05:42 AM  10 years agoPost 1
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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So the other day I'm out flying around when my heli seems to lose power and start coming down on it's own while the engine rpm's started to go up. I land it, have a quick look and spool it up again, but it took the head a while to catch up the the engine. Looks like I've toasted my first clutch! But I've only flown about 6 tanks of fuel through it. Haven't had any 'REALLY' hot starts, but maybe a warm start or two. Shouldn't I be getting a little more life from the clutch lining? Is there a good alternative as far as an aftermarket liner? I've ordered 2 sets of century liners for now but would like to find a solution for the future. Or maybe gasser's just like to eat clutches? Any thoughts?

Warren

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09-14-2007 12:36 PM  10 years agoPost 2
Wayne R

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Kirkland​Lake,Ontario,Canada

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Warren

Which clutch does yours have? There early run of Predators came with a smaller clutch & clutch bell. The liner in these wore out quickly. Mine has the last version of the heavy duty clutch. The heavy duty clutch sysytems came with new improved liners that are supposed to last a lot longer. So far mine has been holding up just fine. I do not fly 3D but my buddy does and he has the heavy duty clutch system and his is working great as well.
I can fly around for a full tank of fuel ( approx 30 minutes ) and when I land my clutch bell is barely warm to the touch.

Wayne Reid

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09-14-2007 03:31 PM  10 years agoPost 3
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Hi Wayne

I'm not too sure if it's heavy duty or not, but the machine is barely 8 months old. How do you tell the difference? Is there any distinguishing identification on one or the other? If it's not the heavy duty I will have to upgrade this winter during the overhaul.
I don't fly 3D and would say I'm an intermediate sport flyer at the moment. Besides the clutch issue, I sure love my Predator. It flys very smooth and is super cheap to run. Talk to you later.

Warren

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09-14-2007 03:49 PM  10 years agoPost 4
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island,​Charleston, SC

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The one on the Left is the standard HD Clutch & the one on the Right is the Super Heavy Duty clutch.

and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"

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09-14-2007 04:43 PM  10 years agoPost 5
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Not too sure what the difference is between those two photo's? Is the super heavy duty an aftermarket item or does it come stock with the new kits? What are those aluminum bracket's? Are they frame supports?

Warren

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09-14-2007 05:32 PM  10 years agoPost 6
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I've ordered 2 sets of century liners for now but would like to find a solution for the future.
Well if he bought liners he better have the standard duty clutch.

Warren, you should also make sure you didn’t break a lobe off. If you are not flying hard you should be able to get 10 or 15 gallons through it before replacement. That is with proper alignment and no chicken dances of course.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-14-2007 06:30 PM  10 years agoPost 7
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Hello Ace

I ordered hw6014 liners for a hw6013e clutch bell assembly(those are the manual part numbers from century). I'm thinking it's the standard clutch, but maybe a call to century could help me out. Even if I bought the wrong liner's they're only about 6.50/set anyway so no big loss. In the picture's above the only real diff. I could see is the height of the bell. Is this the main difference? Without having taken it apart yet I'm not sure if there's a broken lobe or not. If someone could provide me with some spec's I could measure my clutch and maybe determine which type it is for sure. Or maybe if I can post my own picture's, someone may recognize my type. Any tips on uploading pic's.

Warren

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09-14-2007 09:26 PM  10 years agoPost 8
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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The standard clutch has the grey soft liners that are like leather. The new clutch bell is larger, longer and has hard linings like brake shoe material (cannot be replaced).

You can't see the linings on the second photo but you can tell that it is bigger.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-15-2007 04:15 AM  10 years agoPost 9
bellecrank

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Canada

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It could be that your clutch lining is fine, but the bolts that attach it to the an hub have sheared. This will happen if there is to much vibration or if the engine/clutch assembly is not aligned properly to the clutche bell.

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09-18-2007 01:50 AM  10 years agoPost 10
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Upon closer inspection, all four bolts holding the shoe to the fan are gone. This weekend I will take it apart and assess the damage. I am hoping the bolts didn't shear off inside. I'm sure I loctited all bolts during assembly, especially the ones that were difficult to reach. I used blue loctite, perhaps it should have been the red stuff instead!!! I guess it will be a good time to see if I have the super HD or the HD clutch. And I probably don't need those clutch liners after all. I'll keep you posted.

Warren

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09-18-2007 03:16 AM  10 years agoPost 11
Wayne R

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Kirkland​Lake,Ontario,Canada

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One way to tell if you have the heavy duty clutch system besides the bigger clutch bell and clutch is the size of the bolts that hold the clutch to the fan center hub. Early models with the smaller clutch system ( and possibly some of the version 1 heavy duty clutch systems ) have four 3mm bolts holding the clutch to the fan hub. As far as I have seen most version 1 heavy duty clutch systems have a fan hub similiar to the original stock fan hub but have eight holes for mounting the clutch. Four 3mm holes and four 4mm holes. The version 2 heavy duty clutch has a much thicker fan hub and the same eight holes. The clutches for both version 1 & 2 of the heavy duty clutch system have eight threaded holes. Four 3mm & four 4mm holes.

My version 2 clutch system came with four 3mm button head bolts as well as four 4mm button head bolts. The instructions only mention the four 4mm bolts to hold the clutch to the fan hub so that is all I used. My buddy has the version 1 heavy duty clutch system and he is using the four 4mm bolts as well. I do not fly 3D and mine is holding up fine. He does fly 3D with his and so far no problems.

As for loctite for the clutch bolts I used the blue stuff. I am not a fan of red loctite as it is hard to get things apart later if needed. I use mostly blue for most 2.5mm, 3mm and up bolts. In not so crital areas for some 2.5mm bolts or the smaller bolts ( like set screws ) I use the purple stuff. For locking shafts to bearings I use green loctite. Been doing it this way for years and have yet to have any thing come loose.

Wayne Reid

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09-19-2007 01:33 AM  10 years agoPost 12
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Thanks for the advice Wayne. I'm chalking this one up as 'inexperience'. And will learn from my errors. The manual says the bolts that hold the shoe to the fan are 3mmx6mm, so I guess that means I have the Regular duty clutch. Will dissassemble this weekend if time permits and hopefully have it back together ASAP. Talk to you later.

Warren

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09-19-2007 05:53 PM  10 years agoPost 13
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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When the shoes spin in the aluminum hub the hub gets chewed up and needs to be replaced. Maybe the pilot on the shoes is damaged too.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-22-2007 05:20 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Excalibur

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Destination: Earth

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Just as a reference, here is the standard clutch versus the heavy duty version:

Besides being physically larger and thicker, the heavy duty clutch bell has six holes as compared to the original, which has five. Note this is a heavy duty clutch assembly, NOT a Super Heavy Duty clutch assembly. I'm not sure if there is much difference between the two.

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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09-22-2007 03:50 PM  10 years agoPost 15
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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The hub is toast,as is the shoe!!! All four bolts are broken off inside the shoe(everything is the HD version by the way). As I stated earlier, I had a couple of "warm" starts, and was wondering if the cumulative stress could have weakened the bolts and caused the failure? I dialed everything as I built the machine and had a thou or less on everything, so I don't think alignment was the issue? Vibration? What's too much? I've only been in the hobby for a few years and this was my first build, but I feel I did everything exactly as the manual directed and thought she flew great and was amazed by how smooth it ran.
So anyway I called Century yesterday and orderd the New Generation hub, shoe, bell, lower bearing block, and also the frame stiffener set! Wasn't going to get the frame stiffener's but the Century guy said they make a significant difference in reducing vibration! So now I play the waiting game(he told me the end of the month, but with past experience that estimate may be slightly low) So I'll do some maintenance while it's apart on the bench and make sure everything's ready for when my new pieces arrive. Talk to you later.

Warren

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09-22-2007 03:52 PM  10 years agoPost 16
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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Oh yeah! Had to order a fan puller too cause I don't think I own a tool that could remove that thing. It's on there good and I don't want to cause any more problems!!!

Warren

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09-22-2007 07:50 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Wayne R

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Kirkland​Lake,Ontario,Canada

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Warren

The fan hub puller is a good investment. I have one and it makes getting the fan hub a very easy task. One tip for the fan hub puller that makes using it a little easier to use is to find a piece of brass rod ( steel will do as well but brass is better ) that fits in the treaded hole in the crank shaft end. Cut a piece of the rod to 1 1/8 inches long. This allows the bolt on the fan hub puller to push against the rod instead of the crankshaft end directly. The bolt on my fan hub puller was to short to push against the crankshaft. I used a piece of 3/16th solid brass rod. Brass is good because it is soft and will reduce greatly the chance of damaging anything important.

Another tip for the fan hub puller is to check the length of the bolts supplied with it that are used to mount it inside the fan hub for the pulling. The ones that came with mine were a little to long and pushed against the bolt in the center of the puller you turn to apply the pressure to pop the fan hub off. If they hit the bolt they will mess up the threads on it. I ground a little of mine and they were fine after that.

Wayne Reid

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09-22-2007 11:59 PM  10 years agoPost 18
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Believe it or not I don't even use screws in mine any more. I use cylindrical lock (the green stuff) to bond the steel shoes to the aluminum hub. Hasn't let go yet and I don't think it ever will. The problem with the four screws is the angular tolerance. If all four taped holes and all four clearance holes are not exact (and they won't be)only one or two screws hit. So one or two screws take all the load until they sheer. Then the next screw hits or maybe two and then they sheer. Screws do not like sheer stress anyway because of the thread that is cut in them.

While you are waiting you could try to cement what you have right now with the green Locktite if the aluminum hube is not wallowed out too much. The other option would be JB weld. If the shoes are not broken you don't have much to loose.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-27-2007 11:54 PM  10 years agoPost 19
copeland69

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terrace, B.C.,​Canada

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How do you remove it if it's loctited in place? The hub isn't damaged too badly so I may give it a try. The shoe is bad, and all four bolts broke off inside and the outer threads are destroyed, but if loctite will hold it in place I guess I don't need the bolts anyhow.

Warren

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09-28-2007 09:30 PM  10 years agoPost 20
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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How do you remove it if it's loctited in place?
You have no reason to remove it until one the clutch shoes break. At that point you use a torch to heat the clutch up over 450 degrees. A stove top burner works too but most significant others don’t like the stink in the kitchen. When you see the smoke from the loc-tite decomposing the bond is gone and it will just come apart.

You don’t want the cylindrical lock getting on the taper or the mounting screw that has to be trapped inside the hub so put it on the stub of the clutch and set the assembly upside down on the clutch to cure overnight. Make absolutely sure the clutch will seat all the way down on the hub before you try to loc-tite it. The crank mounting screw can be held in its hole with a nut or a rubber band while the loc-tite cures.

I use oil on close fitting aluminum parts so as not to gaul the surfaces. That requires a good cleaning with alcohol prior to using loc-tite so the bond is not compromised. Mineral spirits is not a good solvent for cleaning prior to loc-tite application.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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