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HelicopterHIROBOOther › New 50 size Hirobo..When
11-30-2007 10:38 PM  10 years agoPost 61
freakyreef

rrKey Veteran

Kansas\Colorado border

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Jeff, as soon as I get back to flying, I may give you a shout. If I remember correctly, the clutch wasn't solid when mounting it to the fanhub, but if I recall it was quite snug. When I first built the bird, I shimmed it using a layer of foil on one side to get it to run true. But when I pulled it apart for maint. the last time, I never could get it back to the sweet spot like I did the first go-round. One of these weekends when I get a chance I may go through it again.

Walk on water long enough, eventually you will get your feet wet.

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12-01-2007 02:41 AM  10 years agoPost 62
Paul Susbauer

rrApprentice

Hillsboro, OR

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The biggest complaint I ever had with my Evo 50 was (and other have already mentioned it in this thread) the JIS Phillips screws on the whole airframe. I know most of my buddies who have/had Evo 50s just swapped them out for the socket screws. Also, just like on the Evo 90, I'd like to see elastic stop nuts for the frame screws.

Other than that it was great bone stock. Just fed it dampeners, fuel, and the occaisional glow plug.

I'm looking forward to the next incarnation of the .50.

--Paul

Ineptitude - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

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12-01-2007 04:09 AM  10 years agoPost 63
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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I will throw my suggestions in, too.

Yes, it is a good heli, but everything can be improved.

My suggestion is to make it more of a modular design and combine it with the 90 size machine.

Create and engine cradle for the 30/50 and one for the 90 size.

Then hang the genric components off of the cradle. This will also help in crash repair. Since stuff bolts on to the base module the breakable parts are smaller and cost less.

If you need more strength for the 90 in some areas, make it use two of the same part. This will cut the mold cost down.

Lastly, add the octagonal boom to the 50. It is nearly bullet proof on the 90.

Thanks for listening, I will go back to lurking in the corners.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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12-01-2007 04:14 AM  10 years agoPost 64
MRC-Hirobo

rrKey Veteran

Edison, NJ

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you can use th Evo 90 3x32 cap screws and the thin black lock nuts.

THe bolts are 2532053
the nuts are 2505020

Marshall on the brain. Ears are still ringin' Nuthin finer!! Ahhh, the feeling, nice way to end the work week when you can't go flying!

Jeff

MRC Host

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12-02-2007 03:15 AM  10 years agoPost 65
oldboldpilot

rrKey Veteran

Southern California

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It's interesting to read this thread. No one says Hirobo's don't fly well. No one says parts cost too damned much, except for the EX, which is really for fliers who have quit crashing, in which case the long life of parts translates into a nearly fly-and-forget heli.

But I do hear a definite wish for something fresh from Hirobo.

I hope Hirobo will come out with "fresh" helis for the sake of their fans. I dearly love the flying qualities of my Hirobo, and I have no use for the need of frequent replacement of dead parts as offered by, for example, another good flier, Align.

Helis are Man's Defiance of the Laws of Nature - OCHC

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12-02-2007 03:34 AM  10 years agoPost 66
shlm

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West Chester, PA

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Jeff,

That stack is sick!!!




Steven B.

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12-02-2007 05:35 AM  10 years agoPost 67
Brian Bennett

rrKey Veteran

Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

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Tube amps are great but..

Jeff that stack needs an SG!

I played enough of the electric stuff in order to shoe the babies. I prefer the acoustic route:

Oh, all the CF blades I could have bought

Team MRC-Hirobo and Model Avionics Rep

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12-03-2007 03:01 PM  10 years agoPost 68
MRC-Hirobo

rrKey Veteran

Edison, NJ

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Yep everything can be improved.

Brian, actually I was thinking of getting a Xiphos from Ibanez. SG's don't do it for me. The Explorers do, but not at over $1000.00.

Getting back into playing has been a nice change of pace. Played with a Jackhammer pedal from Marshall this weekend. Nice toy, not so sure if I'll keep it, but fun none the less. What's better is watching my older one getting good at playing.

Sorry I got off on a tangent in this thread. Just got done playing when I was on here goofing around.

Back to the important stuff.

Jeff

MRC Host

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12-06-2007 07:28 AM  10 years agoPost 69
EagleHasLanded

rrNovice

USA

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IMHO, I don't think a new EVO 50 is warranted because HIROBO has applied the principles of CQI.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming]

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12-06-2007 03:09 PM  10 years agoPost 70
MRC-Hirobo

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Edison, NJ

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Very interesting reading. Thanks for the link.

Jeff

MRC Host

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12-08-2007 07:59 PM  10 years agoPost 71
EagleHasLanded

rrNovice

USA

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You're very welcome for that food for thought! "jeff"

By the way, I didn't explain what "CQI" stands for! It stands for "Continuous Quality Improvement, i.e., CQI!"

Which is synonymous to your Runryder signature, "no problems, only solutions"

Which happens to coinside to CQI methodology!

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12-10-2007 02:53 PM  10 years agoPost 72
MRC-Hirobo

rrKey Veteran

Edison, NJ

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I wondered what CQI actually stood for.

Really a good article. Very inspiring.

I can see where you are coming from.

After all these years of being in the retail side of the hobby and now the dist/importer side, that is all there is really, solutions. This is not rocket science and not impossible. It all comes down to "will", wanting to solve something.

Thanks again for sharing that link.

Jeff

MRC Host

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12-10-2007 11:40 PM  10 years agoPost 73
EagleHasLanded

rrNovice

USA

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CQI is a methodology that simply takes any process and turns any hierarchy upside down so that the people in the trenches and customers dictact to upper management what the end result should be from the company or process. It really is what HIROBO is doing! They don't change something for the sake of change, but only change something to IMPROVE IT based on their profound knowledge of the subject matter! i.e, CQI

Glad you enjoyed the reference to Dr. Edward Deming, i.e., father of CQI!

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12-11-2007 11:43 AM  10 years agoPost 74
Toolman

rrApprentice

London

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I think in the real world it doesn’t matter if the vast majority of pilots aren’t at a level to push the Evo, the fact is a modern 50 should have a 8mm spindle!

My list of simple changes would be this:-

8mm spindle
New Grips to suit spindle, maybe metal. Though Hirobo can actually make plastic ones that don’t break!
One piece head block (only to keep new moulded parts to a min).
4mm flybar
Freya tail
Some means of Clutch/Fan not requiring dialling.
Finally M2.5 bolts are to small to hold a Seesaw on, I am sorry! Even a Shuttle has M3 bolts (And no before you ask, they have never broken).

Wouldn’t be hard to do that lot really would it?

Tim.

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12-11-2007 10:50 PM  10 years agoPost 75
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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Ya the dial indicating thing is such a huge PITA. Just did it on my x-spec. New bearings and I got the hub to 1 thou....the start shaft at 1 thou at the bottom and true at the top....best i could get or I was going to kill someone. The trex 600N I just bolted the whole thing together and balanced it and then chucked it on...very low vibes from that machine. I jsut did the evo 50 as well so i dont want to dial indicate again for a while. Also you can't easily balance the whole hirobo clutch stack as a unit like the trex.

I just made another post that i was gutted to see two bearings with "singapore" written on the shields and no other identifying marks straight out of a hirobo packet.....really pissed.

Servo frame I have broken twice in flight. Front frame is weak. Stock swash is sloppy from the get go. Stock spindle will bend in flight.

That being said the stock swash doesn't seem to affect it's flying. Parts fit very well together and I can tell beyond a doubt that the evo 50 is smoother and more precise to fly than the trex 600N..."like it's on rails" is a fair description. It just doesn't pop like the 600N. Different beasts. I wont sell my evo 50 and to be truthful it still looks great and better than the 600N. The raptor got hit with the ugly stick when it was born for sure.

I'd rather break a main frame than a servo frame....thats heaps of work to replace. I have broken two clutches on my evo 50. (yes the lining had been replaced regularly)

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12-12-2007 12:09 AM  10 years agoPost 76
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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3mm setscrews take care of the swash issues and take just minutes to do.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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12-12-2007 12:23 AM  10 years agoPost 77
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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did it already. didn't fix it completely

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12-12-2007 02:47 PM  10 years agoPost 78
MRC-Hirobo

rrKey Veteran

Edison, NJ

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.001 is fine, the tolerance is .002.

Unless your motor hits the ground or the shaft bends or you break a clutch no need to dial indicate it again. If you still have trouble, feel free to send it to me and I'll help you with it. True it can be a PITA but there are no bearings there to break unexpectedly either.

Sorry to hear you are "gutted". THese bearing are the same as those used by many other heli companies. They are pretty generic. Not the cheapest of the bunch so you can look elsewhere.

How did you break the servo tray in flight? That would tell me there may be a severe bindage somewhere or it hit the ground unexpectedly a little hard. In the 5+ years of flying Evo's, breaking in flight is new one. Feel free to contact me by phone or email. I'd really like to know about this one.

IF your swash is that sloppy from the get go, contact me and we can arrange for a replacement. That should not be that way out of the box. Mine have worn out after time, but not sloppy out the box.

Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your kit. Nice list to use for making overall improvements.

Just remember if you guys have a problem, contact me for a quick resolution. I'll do my best to help.

Also the "pop" thing, that is being worked on as well. We also tried the Freya arm trick and that worked pretty nicely overall. That wasn't just a bolt on and go thing, but it did work and improve the "pop" noticably. Also adjusting the pitch curve and having a decent servo on the collective will change things.

Jeff

MRC Host

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12-12-2007 10:01 PM  10 years agoPost 79
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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The bearings used to be different. They lasted for ages after a good greasing. Now they look different. Have they move to a cheaper bearing to save money or is it supposed to be as good as the previously sourced bearings? Main reason is to replace a whole heli kit with descent bearings is not cheap. I'll try these singapore ones but if they let me down I will never buy them again in a genuine hirobo packet...I'll just go to rc bearings.com and get the ones he has for a third of the price.

I put a quick uk swash on my freya which has always remained tight and slop free. The evo 50 one is fairly loose now (it has been flown a lot and as i mentioned the looseness does not appear to affect the stability of the evo 50 so I'ts not a biggie) and I had one crack through the plastic ball mount on one of the swashes arms. I thread these things with a small tap and CA the balls in with no further problems. fortunately that didn't render that swash unusable as I moved that position to the unused aileron position.

.
IF your swash is that sloppy from the get go, contact me and we can arrange for a replacement. That should not be that way out of the box. Mine have worn out after time, but not sloppy out the box.
Not necessary Jeff but thanks the same. Just compared to the quick uk one it was. When wiggling the paddles on the freya you could see movement in the swash from new and after putting the quick uk one on it wasn't there. I didn't bother on the evo 50 and the swash has taken a long time to get quite sloppy so i put that down to wear and tear. It still works fine....I just didn't expect it in my x-spec kit. Perhaps a nicer swash on the 90's that doesn't cost a squillion dollars could be a worthy upgrade.

Now the stock servo tray. I was swinging a 2400 nicad around in the lower tray on that thing. I found the little screws holding the tray on would come loose and you had to keep an eye on them. I have broken a tray twice in 8 crashes and once without crahsing at all (for a long time so fatigue may be an issue) Perhaps the battery being a 2400 which is heavy didn't help. I have since put a 1950 nimh at half the weight and haven't had any problems since.
I have heard of others here breaking those trays too easily here on RR so a mod especially around the lower mount just forward of where the screws go may help as that is where it always cracks.
Bindage...absolutely not. I used to be a mechanic before a pilot. I build my machines carefully and properly...there is no binding anywhere on any of my machines.
Perhaps a harder auto with that big battery up front maybe? yes?
Unless your motor hits the ground or the shaft bends or you break a clutch no need to dial indicate it again
You have to after everytime you remove the clutch/hub to do the engine bearings. I know it's just one of those jobs I'd like to avoid....I can spend so long trying to get it perfect and .001 is as good as I could get last time.
Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your kit. Nice list to use for making overall improvements
I dont think it was a lot of trouble. It has been one of the best flying heli's I have ever had. Just making observations that can be worked upon to provide an even better product.

So my list is (after extensive experience with the evo 50 and freya) to help you see a customers point of view is.

Evo 50.
1. Strengthen the fron servo tray
2. supply harder spindles in the kit
3. Give it more "pop"
4. strengthen the front legs of the main frame beside the engine head to help survive relatively light crashes. They crack a little easily.
5. investigate the clutches to see why they break shoes off on a well maintained lining/clearance (on my third clutch)

Freya. (x-spec) Nothing. I changed the swash which I wanted to but this heli is so nice to fly. I just had a buzzing in the tail that would not go away after changing nearly everything until I put the freya evo tail drive gear on it and slowed the tail down. Then it went away.

My experience of Hirobo is not at all bad. The service is as we all know......legendary!
The heli's have been a joy to fly.
Hope the comments are helpful in some way.

Cheers
Glenn

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12-13-2007 04:09 AM  10 years agoPost 80
MRC-Hirobo

rrKey Veteran

Edison, NJ

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I know what you mean.

There are actually 3 types that I recall, some Japanese ones, the singapore ones you have now and some other non labelled type that appear in the Sceadu mains. The shiny flat shield Singapore ones have been fine whereas the original Sceadu ones would wear out a little faster. I'd have to see which ones you have but I have an idea which ones you are talking about.

Good thing the 10x19 are pretty common so there are choices for certain. I have not changed mine out as they seem to be fine. I would not see a reason too unless you really wanted to.

I hear ya on the swash. The Hirobo one is not cheap even in Japan compared the one you got. But we would have replaced it or made other arrangements. That is not normal by our standards. OFfer still stands.

Hmm, maybe the battery. I use a 1500 on mine and just recharge as needed in between the BS sections at the field. That part can be improved and reparied easily. My bud Don Schaffer made a neat little sheet metal reinforcemnt for his. THat worked nicely. I think the canopy puts extra load on that assembly as well. I think the mounts were supposed to break in the event of a hard landing but they didn't.

I like to use med CA on those tapping screws. Just a habit I have. Yes you can chase them.

Sorry did not intend to question your building abilities. Just in flight breakage was a new one.

I appreciate your list and it is accurate with the general feedback. Remember, I is a customer too. I catch your point of view.

Thanks again for the list and contributing to the topic. Thank you for Flying the Evo 50 and 90. I glad you like them.

By all means let me know if anything else pops up. We are here to help.

jeff

MRC Host

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