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HelicopterMain Discussion › belt vs torque tube efficiency
09-15-2007 05:46 AM  10 years agoPost 21
Boidman (RIP)

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I have watched several skilled pilots hover helis with no apparent motion, for minutes at a time. One can reference the position of the helicopter very accurately against near and far objects. The sticks can be seen moving, even though there is no apparent roll, pitch, yaw, or travel - freakin' amazing. So I understand the skills involved.

I believe there can absolutely be no, "motive towards bias" even though a bias can exist.

I don't really understand/accept, "that makes their remarks so unanimous."

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09-15-2007 06:00 AM  10 years agoPost 22
GimbalFan (RIP)

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I'm feeling an uncontrollable urge to scratch my chin and light another ceegar.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-15-2007 06:03 AM  10 years agoPost 23
Boidman (RIP)

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Pull the lint outa yorn navel and get on with it, Bubba.

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09-15-2007 06:06 AM  10 years agoPost 24
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Who you callin' Bubba?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-15-2007 06:09 AM  10 years agoPost 25
Boidman (RIP)

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Leave us knot let this go too astray.

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09-15-2007 06:12 AM  10 years agoPost 26
GimbalFan (RIP)

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There must be a logical explanation for what is being perceived. I suspect it may have to do with individual heli manufacturer's designs.

I imagine some, maybe even a majority of designs can be shown (if their setups of both types are optimized) to have less loss with a torque tube, while other designs may be such that there is no discernable difference, or may even turn out to be measurably bass-ackwards from what's expected.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-15-2007 06:21 AM  10 years agoPost 27
Boidman (RIP)

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Sure, there is the benefit of a larger front pulley, regarding friction, but then the pair of snubbers on each side of the belt have to be factored in, too.

I think it would be surprising to get the statistics from a slew of top pilot's opinions after flying those 5 of both kinds, almost perfectly identical, electric T-Rex 600's, say.

I bet it might be quite amusing.

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09-15-2007 06:24 AM  10 years agoPost 28
GimbalFan (RIP)

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And then additional rounds with some other major brands of electrics, eh?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-15-2007 06:29 AM  10 years agoPost 29
Boidman (RIP)

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I think the major discrepancy potential could be discovered with one brand/style of mechanics. I rather strongly believe that we all rate ourselves much higher than is reality, when imagining our ability to discern certain variables.

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09-15-2007 07:57 AM  10 years agoPost 30
MrMel

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Gotland

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There was TONS of difference in flight charactaristics on the T-rex 600 Belt VS TT, because with the TT you replaced the whole tail section, main thing was that you getting more travel (longer shaft) on the tail, that gave ALOT more piro speed and much more "locked tail"

Thats why Pro's was using it.

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09-15-2007 08:00 AM  10 years agoPost 31
GimbalFan (RIP)

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I didn't know that. How much longer?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-15-2007 09:03 AM  10 years agoPost 32
MrMel

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Gotland

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Didnt measure it in mm (I only have TT now), but in terms of piro speed it was ALOT, probably almost double the piro speed.

I think though since then Align came out with a upgrade open tail hub for belt drives as well.

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09-15-2007 09:54 AM  10 years agoPost 33
tlankford01

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Amarillo, TX 79110

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I have not gone to the tt on the align just because the belt I have is so good and the belt is only 7.99. Look at other threads and all I have seen is people talking about there gears stripping on the tt at either end. With a belt i do not have that problem and I am not running out and spending thirty dollars because of stripped gears.

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09-15-2007 10:27 AM  10 years agoPost 34
MrMel

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Gotland

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So true, If a fly lands on the tailblades its time to hit the store

Well, almost

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09-15-2007 05:20 PM  10 years agoPost 35
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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Who you callin' Bubba?
LoL

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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09-15-2007 05:59 PM  10 years agoPost 36
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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To go a bit further on the shaft driven motorcycle tangent - the shaft driven motorcycle has a nasty tendency to squat down a bit when you throttle down the engine, VERY bad when you are at the limits in a tight turn.
But very, very nice when laying rubber. You get that nice plume out from under the rear fender when the wheel is so close.

A tube drive loads pinion bearings under torque as bevel gears try to separate at front and rear locations.This is something you cannot measure on the bench when comparing both systems for losses. Belts can jump pulleys but gears don't until they strip and loose drive. Hey maybe we should run chains We know which system has the most bearings. Both systems do a fine job regardless of pro-con arguements.

Stephen

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09-15-2007 09:09 PM  10 years agoPost 37
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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I'd take objective measurements over subjective evaluations, in situations such as being discussed.
It doesn't have to be subjective. Spool up two identical helis (one belt driven and one torque tube) to the same head speed and kill them at the same time (or time them individually). The one that is still turning its rotors has the highest efficiency.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-15-2007 09:27 PM  10 years agoPost 38
Boidman (RIP)

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I believe that I could easily prepare two electrics where one would take 1 1/2 to 2 times longer to spin down than the other, and you could not tell any difference by carefully looking both over. But when using the same specific battery and motor in each model, the longer coaster would get a noticeably shorter flight time, at maybe 15 mph.

So yes, you could tell which one had the least drag, for performing say an auto, but I don't see how that test would indicate anything more. I have been called blind, though.

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09-15-2007 11:18 PM  10 years agoPost 39
AceBird

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I believe that I could easily prepare two electrics where one would take 1 1/2 to 2 times longer to spin down than the other, and you could not tell any difference by carefully looking both over.
Maybe you couldn't but I could. The one that stops first has more friction. The one that keeps going has the greater efficiency because it has less friction. There will not be as noticeable a difference with small helicopters but with a 90 or a gasser there will be a significant difference between a belt drive and a torque drive.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-21-2007 12:58 PM  10 years agoPost 40
ChristianM

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Oslo, Norway

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There will not be as noticeable a difference with small helicopters but with a 90 or a gasser there will be a significant difference between a belt drive and a torque drive.
I think the difference with a small helicopter will be bigger but the biggest impact is how well the heli is built and setup. With a tight TR belt on a Trex I think you could reduce the flight time with 20% to 40% (in the extreme case).

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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HelicopterMain Discussion › belt vs torque tube efficiency
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