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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › AEROMNI INC - R60/90 gasser with Zenoah PUH231
12-01-2007 02:22 PM  9 years agoPost 341
Zaptorgasser Paul Macha

rrApprentice

USA LA

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WELL!!! So far so good) So lets go boy!!
look here do this http://gasserman.com/html/manual_gasserman.html
going to prepare next pages

If there are some comments from public with ideas to make the process better, don't hesitate to PM or post here please..

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12-01-2007 02:31 PM  9 years agoPost 342
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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As I have previously said I am not good with machinery/tools so anything that will make the process easier is a good thing in my book.
This can be a pitfall when dealing with a gasser. The forces are much larger than a glow and as a result problems surface over time that would take much longer with glow engine power. The parts of the conversion are bound to be stronger than the original frame parts and that causes stress concentrations in the original frame that wouldn't normally be there.

I am not trying to paint a grim picture here just trying to give you some for site towards the future if you witness problems that can't be explained.

So if I add 250 to the price of a Raptor what does that make the bottom line?

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-01-2007 03:13 PM  9 years agoPost 343
Zaptorgasser Paul Macha

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USA LA

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Take calculator and count ONLY the expenses for gasoline compare to glow engine nitro fuel after 100 hours of flying. Tell us the result.. My caclulator says 7 gallons gas vs 1 gallon nitro

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12-01-2007 03:44 PM  9 years agoPost 344
Zaptorgasser Paul Macha

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USA LA

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Why i use carbon at gasser conversion

Why i use carbon at gasser conversion ?
Here is table of materials
Material E (GPa) Rm (MPa) q(g/cm3)
E-glass fiber 72,4 3500 2,54
Carbon (HM) 390 2100 1,9
Kevlar 49 130 2800 1,5
Steel 210 340-210 7,8
Aluminum 70 140-620 2,7

Elastic module 390 compare to 70 is huge difference. The weight ratio is welcome as well - 1,9:2,7

Anyway, as everobody can see in the log book, I still fly the aluminum
sides.

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12-01-2007 05:04 PM  9 years agoPost 345
DRUMMER

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Dover, UK

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Thanks Ace,

I appreciate the heads up. I am not new to helis or even gassers having had a couple before. I am just not very good at making things from scratch and using tools. For instance my favourite hammer is a screwdriver handle

Sterted the conversion today and got the fan and upper engine plate fitted.

regards
drummer

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12-01-2007 08:04 PM  9 years agoPost 346
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Oh I forgot, please give us your honest opinion. If it works out for you it has to be a good conversion. It says alot for Zaptorgasser's ability too. This was a rather quick turn around from cutting chips to finish product. I doubted success in the beginning.

Good Luck

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-01-2007 11:02 PM  9 years agoPost 347
bosshoss

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

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I am watching too.

Drummer be as candid as possible , and ZaptorGasser can use your input as a first time builder of the kit, in real time.

ZaptorGasser stands to learn alot from his first customers, and more customers , depending on his response......good for all us.

I JUST maidened my VelociRaptor 90 I bought here on Run Ryder , on nitro 91 C-spec OMI & Cline. And all I could think of was the gasser conversion here.

I stumbled on this thread this morning, right before my maiden, looking for starter advice on my C-spec.

I said right after touchdown IN A SNOWSTORM,,,, " OK it flies, I want to convert it to gas".

So, lets see how your kit goes together, I will go make some coffee.

Mike

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12-02-2007 08:54 AM  9 years agoPost 348
DRUMMER

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Dover, UK

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Hi Guys,

I have had several PM's and general posts about the kit so wil try and cover them all here.

Yes, I will be frank about the kit and feedback my thoughts to zaptorgasser. My first impressions are already posted here and
PM'd to him which has led to some changes and the online instructions
being posted/updated.

Zaptorgasser has quickly answered all my questions, usually by PM [not the email address you asked about] allowing of course for the time difference as I am in the UK. He seems to me to be an enthusiastic and clever guy having produced this kit from idea to production in a short space of time. So far i can recommend him as an honest and straight up sort of guy.

The price of $250 I quoted was not a special price for me but I understand is the new price for the kit,Zaptor having reviewed his costs has reduced it to this. It included shipping to the UK.

I still need advice on what gearing to use and that raises some questions for [you] as i am considering running a longer boom and blades. That is part of today's mission, producing a list of items to order to complete the conversion.ie new clutch & bell,main gear etc

That covers all the questions posed to me, so if you don't mind me and my hangover are going to read the papers, drink a gallon of tea then make our way to the garage to continue the build!

regards
drummer

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12-02-2007 01:25 PM  9 years agoPost 349
bosshoss

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Chicago, IL

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Awesome Drummer.

Make the Tea extra strong, so you don;t have to drink to much and have to go to the loo so often....build time is build time...

I wish I could be right there to watch the build. This has really piqued my interest.

We had a snow/ice storm last nite, the winds are calm and everything is melting. I am going to go fly my R90 for the second time now and pretend it is a gasser...like all my planks that now will be collecting dust.

I also, will be converting and stretching out to the 800mm class,with this bird.

Are there optional quiet mufflers for these engines, Zaptorgasser??

Also is it possible to start one of these without a pullstart to facilitate near total enclosure in a fusealage?? Maybe a battery excited ignition model would be better for this instead of a magneto that needs to spin fast , eh?

Sorry, I don;t want to hijack the thread, just typing out-loud...

Get to it Drummer, Eat sleep, build, anesthitize, sleep, wakeup, eat, build...repeat.

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12-02-2007 02:40 PM  9 years agoPost 350
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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drummer, you can do as you like but I think you should not build the stretched version first. Building a biger heli with higher stresses could taint the success. JMO

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-02-2007 04:03 PM  9 years agoPost 351
copperclad

rrElite Veteran

NY

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Are there optional quiet mufflers for these engines
Century , Zimmerman , Hatori , and others , here is a link to the Century V3
http://www.centuryheli.com/products...m?currentid=210

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12-02-2007 05:35 PM  9 years agoPost 352
DRUMMER

rrApprentice

Dover, UK

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okay a small update on todays progress:

Final fit of the top engine plate, the fan and the heavy duty clutch.
Dry fitted the side frames to get an overview of where i am headed.
Stuck at the next stage trying to figure where/how or why there is need for a recess under the fan shroud. Zap has posted another picture but still struggling with the concept of what i am supposed to do there ie drill hole, make recess for bolt head, bolt what to what etc.

Tore apart my 60 & 90 donor airframes, which is a strange feeling
taking apart two good flying machines to make one. I am using parts from both as I want to end up with the gasser and a flyable 60 with 90 engine for a scale body. You do have to tear the donor airframes back to nuts & bolts, I tried stopping at various stages to see if components could be left together but to no avail. All the bearings in fact anthing joined to the side frames has to come off/out to fit
the spacers and make room for the bigger engine width.

Something worth noting if your 90 is not a pure built 90 but an ugraded 60, the earlier 60's had a slightly different fan shroud and servo tray which i had to change to a newer version when i first converted it to 90. There is a benefit now as the old 60 shroud/servo tray i am cutting and using for the gasser project, leaving me the 'newer' version to use on the 60 airframe with 90 engine eventually.Better to use the redundant spares than have to replace them again.

Here endeth the weekend so progress slows down and work cuts in, I might have a trip to Africa on Tuesday so that will be a niusiance but if it happens i will be back on Thursday.

I still intend to go with the longer blades from the start as I have gone to alot of truble to end up with heavy duty Quick UK components on the gassercraft [clutch,bell and all metal head] and will need to get the gear ratio right from the start not get it running then change everything.

if anything else happens you will be the second to know!
drummer

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12-02-2007 05:41 PM  9 years agoPost 353
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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But the V3 is designed for a rear facing engine so the canopy will really need to be cut up.

For ratios.

My predator ran 720mm blades at a 7.07 ratio. I spun it to 1900HS.
My Benzin ran 800mm wide cord blades at a 9.09 ratio. I spun it to 1060HS.
I think I ran my predator with 800mm blades with an 8.4 ratio giving a 1400HS.

I am searching for a pipe that will run from the left side to the back. Nothing is jumping out at me, though.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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12-02-2007 05:55 PM  9 years agoPost 354
copperclad

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NY

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hi rcadd1ct
i was confused about the V3 at first , i thought you were saying it couldn't be flipped over , and a few minutes after i posted i caught up to you , it is that mounting the engine head forward has the exhaust port way forward in comparison to the rear facing engine , thanks , dana

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12-02-2007 06:27 PM  9 years agoPost 355
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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but from everything i can see on my machines the muffler can be flipped over , i mean both the engine port and muffler are symmetrical
Are you suggesting removing the cylinder bolts and turning the cylinder 180? Engine gurus; will that work??

Ace
What could be more fun?

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12-02-2007 06:28 PM  9 years agoPost 356
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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That is the point.

Hatori has a forward engine facing pipe. Research the issues with hatori.

This is why I am looking into a rear pipe with a header.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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12-02-2007 06:28 PM  9 years agoPost 357
copperclad

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NY

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no ace , i was talking about just flipping the exhaust system over , i see what he is talking about now , thanks

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12-02-2007 06:32 PM  9 years agoPost 358
copperclad

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NY

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hi rcadd1ct
i think you are talking about where on the muffler the manifold is attached , i have a hatori and the manifold is way forward , on the century mufflers the manifold is pretty much centered , i am all caught up to what you are saying , and appreciate it , i had never looked at it that way till now , thanks again , dana

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12-02-2007 06:38 PM  9 years agoPost 359
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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Ace.

I think head has a two bolt installation.

If you flip it the bolts will not clock (if I am seeing it correctly in my mind).

Then there is the porting to the cylinder from the block.

If this could be done, then the zimmerman pipe might work.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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12-02-2007 06:45 PM  9 years agoPost 360
Zaptorgasser Paul Macha

rrApprentice

USA LA

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http://www.centuryheli.com/products...m?currentid=210
Nice but what you going to do when you damage bolt at the exhaust ??
Can you use M6 bolt with this engine? With original muffler is possible.

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › AEROMNI INC - R60/90 gasser with Zenoah PUH231
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