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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
09-14-2007 03:00 PM  10 years agoPost 21
Clarence Creer

rrVeteran

Dallas, Texas

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Main Gear

93t main gear/13t pinion = 7.153846 or 7.15 on the Spectra G.

BTW I fly a Spectra G with a TRM231 and love it.

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09-14-2007 03:25 PM  10 years agoPost 22
bhhansonproduct

rrNovice

lake ariel, pa

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I usually don't get on forums much, but let me get in here to get things straight before the rumor gets around that my 260's wont work as well as a 231. There is info being spread by a certain heli manufacturer that my 260 wouldn't work in their ship because of excessive vibration. These heli manufacturers may be showing allegiance towards their engine supplier that specializes in the 231 engines, or they have an issue with the former owner of my company, or they don't get out much and try new product and fail to see advances in the engine world around them. What ever the reason, let me say that my new engines will work with no problem, run smoothly and powerfully in any application that will accept the 231 format..period. We supply our 260 Pro engines to another heli manufacturer as their hop up option and they have no problems. Since this thread is asking about my engine in a Spectra-G, let me say that I have quite a few customers that fly that combo, both Pro and Max in the Spectra, with great results. If it's head speed you want, change the gearing. All good heli manufacturers offer different gear ratios to suit your needs. You should be adjusting gear ratio anyway to suit flying style, blade size and application...sport flying, 3D or camera use. There is no one set of rules for all and this is what the successful pilots do. In my opinion, there is no substitute for cubic inches in powered vehicles. There's a reason that 231 sales have dropped off in all of the gas hobby industry. ..heli's, boats, cars.etc. The 260's make more HP and torque across the board and with the modifications we make, vibration is not an issue any more. The Zenoah engines we use for our base are sturdy and dependable. I say this to make comparison to the Chinese clones out there that have poor metallurgy and sometimes fail when pressed hard. Stick with Zenoah and remember that in the long run, cheap is expensive. That's your call as a consumer. For those that use the RC based engine as in the Vario format, there may be good news on the horizon if you need more power. My Zenoah rep told me that he is working on the factory to get them to make larger engines via bore and stroke to make 27 and 29 cc engines available. Don't hold your breath on this one, but it will come eventually. This is to compete with the clone big bore and stroke RC style engines that are currently out there. When Zenoah does it, it will be right and dependability wont be an issue any more. Maybe some of this will filter over to the PU market so we can offer larger displacement engines at a reasonable cost. General engine info..you can't balance a one cylinder engine, but you can adjust things to reduce amplitude of vibration and make it smooth in a certain range. You will not "blow up" a Zenoah engine... that is parts wont fail from RPM. We run our marine engines over 19,000 and make 6 HP at 16,000 and 5 HP at 18,000. The helis have a different criteria..you need power and smooth running because of the mounting systems you use. I usually send out the engines with conservative RPM recommendations. This is to make the new gasser flier learning process less painful $$$ as he learns to fly and tune the gasser, especially when changing over from a nitro ship. I had a customer call me asking if it was OK to run his engine at around 12,500. he was running 2k head speed. I said "how's it fly and is it smooth". He said smooth as silk and it really hauls at that range. I think he said he was from Texas..head temps were at 190 when landed and temps shot right away at the top fins. The highest he's seen were 200 on the hottest day.He runs 40:1 Klotz R 50 oil . In my opinion, the Klotz oil is the best you can buy with superior lubrication and high film strength. With all the $ you guys spend on your ship, you should always run the best available oil. Talking to my Klotz rep yesterday, he said 50:1 should work with the R50. I still recommend 40:1 to be sure. The parameters for what RPM you run your engine at should be both head temps and vibration, not engine size. I hope I have helped some with what I've learned through the years and have learned from my customers that share their info. Got something to report?..let me know. I pass it on and share with others to help out all modelers.
Al Chianelli

B.H. Hanson Products
7 Lacawac Road
Lake Ariel, Pa.18436

phone..570 689 4561
fax.......570 689 4562
http://www.bhhanson.com/

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09-14-2007 04:25 PM  10 years agoPost 23
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

ttt

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09-14-2007 04:33 PM  10 years agoPost 24
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

ttt

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09-14-2007 04:33 PM  10 years agoPost 25
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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I built the TRM motors for Min air and talked to Tim on many occasion as i visited their facility regularly, when we discussed the heli's needs he told me the specs of the spectra which are 7.15, we had tim make us a set of 6.92 to 1 for testing purposes but he was not going to release that ratio it was for 260 testing. I would recheck your tooth count. Peace, Toxic Al

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09-14-2007 04:57 PM  10 years agoPost 26
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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Not to call you out Al, but I disagree with you on the 260/231 debate,I have been build both versions of the Zen for a long time and I seen atvantages to both engines. Everyone is under the "bigger is better" impression and that is fine.My 231 has a national SAW record in Australia as well as the 260. the performance is based on the design as well as the builder.Not all tuners are alike and not created equal. AS fas the clone engines I don't use them at this point but am testing one and the quality has improved greatly and to be totally honest i have been dissappointed in Zenoah's quality as of late. I am not saying you build an inferior engine at all, in fact I like the competition. But when I released the 231vx a few years ago nothing even came close to the performance until you took over Bruce's operation and it was a welcomed change. This gentleman seems to have no intensions of getting one of my engines and that is fine that's his decision. I am just trying to educate so please understand there is no static intended. Peace, Toxic AL(TRM)

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09-14-2007 05:22 PM  10 years agoPost 27
j.8

rrVeteran

Denmark

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Hi WHITEHOUSE HELI

"I am still a newbee. I guess I dont fully understand all of the speed and ratios you guys are talking about."

The higher the headspeed, the faster the heli can change it`s
direction. A basic need for 3D

So if you want a headspeed of 1850 rpm with the Spectra G
you`ll need, engin output rpm 13250, because
1850(headspeed) x 7.15(gearing) = 13227.5 rpm

Regards Bo Denmark

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09-15-2007 01:44 AM  10 years agoPost 28
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

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09-15-2007 07:46 AM  10 years agoPost 29
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

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09-15-2007 10:17 AM  10 years agoPost 30
enricovolante

rrNovice

Lugano, Switzerland

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What we do really need is a totally new engine and not modified versions. In the airplane market there are really some sweet engines from different manufacturer but for our gasser we have just one choice, Zenoah, that's it....

Hope someone will fill this gap

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09-15-2007 05:15 PM  10 years agoPost 31
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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I will be testing a new engine soon so just be patient and I will keep you all up to date. Peace, Toxic Al

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09-16-2007 07:15 AM  10 years agoPost 32
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

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09-16-2007 08:08 AM  10 years agoPost 33
enricovolante

rrNovice

Lugano, Switzerland

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Al, great news, give us some anticipations about this project. Engine size, ignition

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09-16-2007 08:13 AM  10 years agoPost 34
DON SEAY

rrNovice

INDY home of the 500

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You asked about toxic al....do you have a website that I can check out?

Look at his homepage

Jet A is number #1

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09-16-2007 02:19 PM  10 years agoPost 35
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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My website is toxicmarine.com, I am adding the heli stuff this week but you have all my contact info and marine info there. I had not put any heli motors on my site before because of my agreement with MA. they were the only company which motors were sold from and their dealers, but since my departure from I am changing it all. AS far as the new stuff the stg3 motor and larger bore motors are coming. that is all I will say, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot at this time. I will let you know when progress is made. Peace, Toxic Al

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09-16-2007 03:04 PM  10 years agoPost 36
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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I don't believe anyone affiliated with Miniature Aircraft has ever specified that a particular manufacturer's motors should not be used in the Spectra-G. It has however been clearly stated that using the G231 is the preferred motor and the use of any flavor of the G26 motor is not recommended in the stock Spectra configuration.

A lot of testing has been done with the G26 using stock gearing and std frame configurations and a number of customers run them in spite of the recommendation not to. The most successful are using non-standard gear ratios and limit the rotor head speeds.

It is a fact that the G231 and the G26 are not the same motor. They have different running characteristics. Frankly I think the G26 is a better running motor especially when comparing stock versions but they have different vibration signatures. I understand that this difference is not lost on the folks that run them in boats either as they see more issues with motor mounts than with the g231.

Using the std 7:15 ratio of the spectra, and running the headspeeds that maximize 3D performance the Spectra is not tolerant of the G26 vibration characteristics. This is most notable in the longevity of electronics and tail boom components. On the other hand thousands of flights have been logged on the stock configurations using g231 motors with results that are more typical.

In the case of the TRM231 it's been tuned/modified to run specifically with the Spectra gear ratio and common exhaust systems and as a result works quite well with the model. When properly broken in and run the model kicks ass with it.

The point of any kit recommendation is to ensure success with the model out of the box. When you follow a different path your mileage may vary.

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09-18-2007 06:56 AM  10 years agoPost 37
WHITEHOUSE HELI

rrApprentice

Michigan

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ttt

ttt

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09-18-2007 03:35 PM  10 years agoPost 38
bhhansonproduct

rrNovice

lake ariel, pa

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WWH, clowns?, is that the way to refer to those that have tried to help you?I am truly happy that you have chosen the 231 option. Good luck with your heli.
Al

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09-18-2007 03:39 PM  10 years agoPost 39
ppridday

rrKey Veteran

Detroit Lakes MN

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Wow!!! I'm sure there will be a lot more help coming your way.

You must be a real treat out at the field..

P.

"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."

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09-18-2007 04:22 PM  10 years agoPost 40
j.8

rrVeteran

Denmark

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If you gonna walk through the dessert, without water, the
chance of success is very small

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