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HelicopterOff Topics › Brains of liberals, conservatives may work​differently
09-15-2007 04:13 AM  10 years agoPost 121
RonHill

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spork
"Pointing that out is SO much more different than calling an entire news organization "Faux news", or calling Bush something to do with Hitler on every occasion you mention his name."

Not sure why you're telling me this. I've never done either one.
Please accept my apology, that was not intended at you.

BTW I think global warming is real and part of it is pollution. I just don't give much credibility to Gore for his stance on it.

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09-15-2007 04:22 AM  10 years agoPost 122
RonHill

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Wrong...You need to read your own source. It does not say 72% thought WMD's were found.
Overall, 80 percent of those who relied on Fox News as their primary news source believed at least one of the three misperceptions. Viewers/listeners/readers of other news outlets didn’t even come close to this total.
33% was the number of WMD's, and I think they are idiots. But nowhere close to your BS 72% number.

And as the population as a whole 60% held at least one of the three you list from your same source:
An in-depth analysis of a series of polls conducted June through September found 48% incorrectly believed that evidence of links between Iraq and al Qaeda have been found, 22% that weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq, and 25% that world public opinion favored the US going to war with Iraq. Overall 60% had at least one of these three misperceptions.
CBS also shows 71% held at least one, and ABC had 61%.

In light of that info, while I will grant 80% is bigger it is not THAT much bigger than the folks that got their news from CBS, and 60% of the entire US population held at least one of the three.

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09-15-2007 04:29 AM  10 years agoPost 123
spork

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Please accept my apology, that was not intended at you.
No apology necessary. I thought that was intended for me, but assumed it was a mistake.
BTW I think global warming is real and part of it is pollution.
We clearly agree on this. I think that's hard to refute, but there are certainly those that try.
I just don't give much credibility to Gore for his stance on it.
I didn't vote for Gore, but I have to confess I would now. There's plenty of room to disagree on how Gore has conducted himself. I just get extremely frustrated when people try to disprove the reality of global warming by discrediting Gore. Frankly, Gore could be the anti-christ, and that wouldn't change a thing.

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09-15-2007 04:35 AM  10 years agoPost 124
LouInSD

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I said I was wrong, the real number was 80%, not 72%.

As I said, I "misremembered" the results of the study.

That study came out in 2003 so it has been a few years since I read it. I thought it was common knowledge, I guess I keep forgetting that so many people are Faux watchers.

Thanks for posting that graph. It only helps bolster my argument that ALL corporate media is involved in intentionally misinforming the public. Its a race to the bottom and Faux is leading the way...

More and more, NPR is being "underwritten" by corporations so we are seeing that news source being tainted as well, but as of now NPR, as it turns out, is the best at giving American citizens the truth.

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09-15-2007 05:13 AM  10 years agoPost 125
spork

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Thanks for posting that graph. It only helps bolster my argument that ALL corporate media is involved in intentionally misinforming the public. Its a race to the bottom and Faux is leading the way...
Interesting theory. While I agree that Fox news is unwatchable, I actually think very few people and organizations intentionally mislead. As hard as it is for me to fathom, I think people actually believe it when they say global warming is fake. In many cases I think they've "pre-decided" to believe it, but then they only listen to those things that support their view.

There's no question the tobacco companies have intentionally misled people, and there are certainly instances in which our government (or members thereof) has as well. But all in all I think most people and news organizations actually believe the B.S. they push.

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09-16-2007 01:03 AM  10 years agoPost 126
RonHill

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I said I was wrong, the real number was 80%, not 72%.
Wrong again. You claimed 72% of FOX watchers believed we found WMD's. That number is actually 33%.

You then claimed that the study showed 80%. But again you misread things, or are trying to misrepresent the data on purpose. 80% of Fox watchers believed one or more of THREE issues as true, but that is not 80% thought they found WMD's. The number for media as a whole was 60%. CBS viewers were at 71%.

So while you can make big claims about Fox, CBS is not showing much better and media as a whole was a 60% for one or more of the three.

You are trying to twist and now back peddle.

You wanna claim most news outlets are screwed up? OK no disagreement. You wanna claim Fox is the worst? OK no real disagreement there either.

But you wanna take data and twist it and use it wrongly....I have an issue with that.
It only helps bolster my argument that ALL corporate media is involved in intentionally misinforming the public
Do you have any proof that is it intentional? Or are you just wishing on a star again?

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09-16-2007 08:36 AM  10 years agoPost 127
LouInSD

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How many times do I have to say it Einstein? I read the study three years ago and have already apologized for misquoting it.

Turns out the numbers were worse for you than I previously thought.

You can split hairs all you want and rant and rave like little girl, the bottom line is that Faux viewers are the LEAST informed and the MOST misinformed bunch of morons in the country and the world.

Congratulations!

You can try to minimize the stupidity of Faux viewers by saying that other Americans are almost as stupid, it only makes you look desperate.

Educated people realize there isnt that much difference between the tripe Faux puts out and what the rest of the corporate media puts out. Only the ignorant try to demonize CBS, ABC, and NBC as being left wing, liberal and whatever else you think are derogatory names in TX.

The truth is they're ALL corporate and they all have a vested interest in keeping the uneducated (that'd be you) in the dark...

So you can point at how many actual journalists are left leaning blah blah blah...doesn't matter...

You're only as liberal as the guy who signs your paycheck...

Get informed...

Turns out, you'd be better off watching a fake news show than you would watching Fox news...LOL!

Daily Show viewers better informed; Fox News viewers less so
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/2642.html

As for your last silly statement, I made the effort to study these things for years, why don't you make a little effort instead of having everyone else do your homework...typical con

People get educated so that they will go through life having the same frame of reference as the rest of the educated world. It's not my fault you didn't get an education...

Go watch Faux news, at least you'll feel better about being a member of the misinformed club...

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09-16-2007 02:51 PM  10 years agoPost 128
RonHill

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How many times do I have to say it Einstein? I read the study three years ago and have already apologized for misquoting it.
Well the issue is not really the first misquote, but how you did it again and again. You need to learn how to read a study and not just read what you want it to say. That is the first step in critical thinking...To remove your own bias and read what is actually written not what you would like it to say.
Turns out the numbers were worse for you than I previously thought.
And there is another example. You just read what you want and glossed over anything else. 80% believed one of three for Fox, 71% one of three for CBS, and 60% of the entire population. You keep quoting one issue (WMD's) Yet the stats were for 3 separate issues. The WMD number was 33%...You either don't understand or are trying to mislead through misdirection wishing that people just took your made up "facts" without checking them.

You then claim to have "misremembered" them when called on it, but then you lead off with MORE incorrect numbers.
You can split hairs all you want and rant and rave like little girl
The only one acting like a little girl, is the one that is throwing insults....Hint, thats not me. It is a sign of a lost case when the debater has to start throwing insults.

This is really funny:
Educated people realize there isnt that much difference between the tripe Faux puts out and what the rest of the corporate media puts out. Only the ignorant try to demonize (Fox), CBS, ABC, and NBC as being (right wing), left wing, (Con), liberal and whatever else you think are derogatory names in TX
And here you are trying to demonize Fox. See the humor there? Hint: You just called yourself an idiot since you are doing the same to Fox.

BTW for the record, born in IL, lived mostly in FL. I moved to TX since the pay was so good I could not pass up. So your little TX insult is *really* sad. You can't debate facts so you now insult STATES?
As for your last silly statement, I made the effort to study these things for years, why don't you make a little effort instead of having everyone else do your homework...typical con
Your "study" resulted in you claiming facts that were incorrect. *I* had to show you the study and correct *you*. BTW I am a teacher...and you would get a "D" for you work so far only since you show passion. But you don't know the truth and when called on it you throw insults.

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09-16-2007 03:24 PM  10 years agoPost 129
spork

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BTW I am a teacher..
Curious. What do you teach, and at what level?

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09-17-2007 12:59 AM  10 years agoPost 130
RonHill

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Curious. What do you teach, and at what level?
Real job is a corporate training instructor for an airline. I teach everything from basic equipment like forklifts, to knowledge based classes such as dangerous goods shipping, spill clean up, and weight and balance on the different aircraft types. I also teach classes in leadership, team building, communication, the whole scope of "intangibles".

Fun job is a skydiving instructor/coach.

Used to teach martial arts.

So basically, I teach adults occupational tasks.

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09-17-2007 04:00 AM  10 years agoPost 131
LouInSD

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That's kinda scary...You obviously don't teach logic.

It's not an insult if it's true. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

You're obviously just going to continue to be childish and persist in trying to prove a point that I am not refuting. I SAID I misquoted the study.

My argument has always been that people who watch Fox News are the worst informed people in the country. The numbers back up my argument. But since that truth is hard to swallow for you, you continue to try to rationalize by saying, "well, ABC is almost as bad, and so is NBC, and CBS too!"

You took the position that I couldnt prove my point and you want to keep pointing to my misquote (which I have already admitted to) as evidence that I am wrong.

I'm sorry, this is not meant as an insult but, you really are acting like an irrational little girl here...

Your argument is basically "I'm not wrong because you were only a little bit right."

I admitted that my original statement was wrong but you're not man enough to admit that the REAL facts proved my overall point, which is that Fox viewers are the most misinformed people in the country

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09-17-2007 04:25 AM  10 years agoPost 132
RonHill

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That's kinda scary...You obviously don't teach logic.
You just can't not make insults can you? It is quite clear you have never even taken a critical thinking class....Or you took it like you read the reports you "misquoted".
You're obviously just going to continue to be childish and persist in trying to prove a point that I am not refuting. I SAID I misquoted the study.
You continuing to misquote it is issue number one. Issue number two is how you make childish insults at anyone that does not blindly agree with your view. At this point I would like to point out that I have been attacking your "facts", YOU have been attacking me. Who is acting childish again?

Perfect example "I'm sorry, this is not meant as an insult but, you really are acting like an irrational little girl here..."

"not meant as an insult"....Well, you have used it several times as an insult.
Your argument is basically "I'm not wrong because you were only a little bit right."
No my argument is you use false data, then when called on it start calling people names since you can't prove your point.

Like I said before, you want to claim Fox sucks? OK. But you are using BS "data" and trying to massage the data to make your point. While ignoring any other data and throwing insults around.
I admitted that my original statement was wrong but you're not man enough to admit that the REAL facts proved my overall point,
You admitted you were wrong, but you kept spouting incorrect info.

You clearly don't understand the written word. As shown by your BS data and:

My 4th post in this thread, "Most agree that Fox has a right lean, I would not debate that"

My 7th post this thread, "You wanna claim most news outlets are screwed up? OK no disagreement. You wanna claim Fox is the worst? OK no real disagreement there either."

So you are wrong again. I did admit Fox is the worst, you just "misread" it I guess?

So to wrap this up:
1. You spout data that was flat wrong.
2. You then "apologize", then go right ahead and continue to do it.
3. You attack the player, not the argument.

All the time while calling others "childish".

I bet you would not insult me to my face.

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09-17-2007 04:50 AM  10 years agoPost 133
drdot

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fwiw..

Unfortunately, the player IS the argument in this issue..
Let's look at the recent case of the near simultaneous hiring and firing of a very liberal leaning law professor (if there is indeed such a thing..) by UC Irvine...
The reason? He's too liberal!!!..This is the same so called institute of higher learning that allows the muslim "students" to hold an anti Israel week each year on campus.
There truly is an aberration in the liberal brain...as they seem to be able to rationalize two mutually exclusive ideas into moral and relative equivalence...
Another example? Jody Foster making inane comments to the effect that the terrorist threat to civilization is effectively a myth, and New York is the safest city in the world, as there's a cop on every corner..Helps a lot with hijacked airliner, doesn't it...
I don't mind people being stupid, as long as it doesn't affect me..

B.C.

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09-17-2007 05:19 AM  10 years agoPost 134
LouInSD

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Ron,

The data can not be massaged and I'm not trying to massage it. Why do you keep accusing me of that?

You keep getting hung up on the first statement I made and continue to try to say that is my ENTIRE argument. It is not.

Forget about what percentage of Fox viewers think we found WMD, that alone might not prove that Fox viewers are being duped. But the study I did finally find is an even better measure of whether Fox viewers are being fooled. It mentioned THREE of the items of misinformation that were being pushed by Fox in the run up to the war.

Let's talk about what we DO agree on. Fox is the worst when it comes to misinforming its viewers.

We DO agree on that, right?

Do you think that is because Fox viewers are less intelligent or because Fox, as part of its agenda, MUST tell untruths in order to accomplish that agenda?

Or a little of both?

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09-17-2007 05:43 AM  10 years agoPost 135
RonHill

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The data can not be massaged and I'm not trying to massage it. Why do you keep accusing me of that?

You keep getting hung up on the first statement I made and continue to try to say that is my ENTIRE argument. It is not.
My first response to you was about how you are only after one news source and you insult as a response.
"Why is it you can't debate a topic without making attacks and over generalizations?

The irony of it all is name calling is a debate tactic of a 4 year old.

Remember CBS had proof of GWB and his NG days. So before you try to slam one news source, you should look and see that all news sources are biased and have been since the first news organization was created. So it is not one side, or one slant. FOX provides the counter to CNN and CBS. So together the total news is balanced, but one source alone is not, never has been and never will be."
You have made several insults:

"Message to the "good Germans""
"See what I mean, it's like dealing with four year olds"
"Hey Faux watchers, let me know if you need some help reading this..."
"How many times do I have to say it Einstein?"
"You can split hairs all you want and rant and rave like little girl"
"It's not my fault you didn't get an education..."
"You obviously don't teach logic"
"I'm sorry, this is not meant as an insult but, you really are acting like an irrational little girl here..."
"but you're not man enough to admit that the REAL facts proved my overall poin"

Exactly how are those not insults and instigations?

Can you admit you are calling people names and trying to be antagonistic?

You have made several incorrect statements.

"BTW, 72% of Faux News watchers believe we have found WMD in Iraq..."

When I pointed out that was incorrect, you then said:
"I said I was wrong, the real number was 80%, not 72%."

When I pointed out THAT was wrong (being that the WMD number was 33%) you really started laying on the insults.
Let's talk about what we DO agree on. Fox is the worst when it comes to misinforming its viewers.

We DO agree on that, right?
I have agreed on that already in my 7th post on this thread...YOU seem to be ignoring that.
Do you think that is because Fox viewers are less intelligent or because Fox, as part of its agenda, MUST tell untruths in order to accomplish that agenda?

Or a little of both?
I have already answered THAT as well.

My 4th post this thread:
"Most agree that Fox has a right lean, I would not debate that. Just as CNN and CBS have a left lean. Murdoch created Fox to provide a right leaning view...Thus, you have balance that did not exist before with CNN."

Murdoch saw a market for right leaning news and filled it.

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09-17-2007 05:55 AM  10 years agoPost 136
drdot

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fwiw..

As I watch this train wreck, I find I can't believe anyone believes that any mainstream media outlet actually presents truthful news..These morons are entertainers, not journalists...Everyone forget Dan Rather already???

Courage.

boy, do we need it...

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09-17-2007 06:08 AM  10 years agoPost 137
LouInSD

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Ron,

I'm trying to get you to see that I see right through your tactics...
you can call them insults, instigations, whatever you want, I'm calling you on your BS, plain and simple...

The thing you are failing to see about your overall argument is that it is inconsistent...

If Fox is involved in a disinformation campaign because it is a right leaning organization, how can you say that CNN, and CBS, et. al are involved in an entirely DIFFERENT (left) type of campaign when the results are nearly the same?

If they are ALL pushing the same lies, how can they be on different sides of the political spectrum?

This is the cognitive dissonance I see all the time with conservatives. They don't get that they are living a philosophy that contradicts itself, yet they walk around beating their chest proclaiming to be on the right side of the issues and claiming that the other networks are all communist media outlets...

It's just BIZZARO world

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09-17-2007 06:11 AM  10 years agoPost 138
spork

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There truly is an aberration in the liberal brain...as they seem to be able to rationalize two mutually exclusive ideas into moral and relative equivalence...
I have to admit, you've lost me drdot. On the one hand, I want to hear your explanation, while on the other I'm confident it will never be able to support the ludicrously broad statement "There truly is an aberration in the liberal brain".
Another example? Jody Foster making inane comments to the effect that the terrorist threat to civilization is effectively a myth
I'm not familiar with these statements. Can you provide a link or other reference?

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09-17-2007 06:14 AM  10 years agoPost 139
RonHill

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Ron,

I'm trying to get you to see that I see right through your tactics...
What calling you when you claim BS numbers?

Calling you out when you make insults?

Calling you out when you play the ball not the player?
This is the cognitive dissonance I see all the time with conservatives. They don't get that they are living a philosophy that contradicts itself, yet they walk around beating their chest proclaiming to be on the right side of the issues and claiming that the other networks are all communist media outlets...
What I see is you making claims you can't back.
I have AGREED that media spins things. YOU just gloss over that since it does not fit into your world view. You can't admit that they all do it, you just harp on Fox. Heck, I even agreed Fox is the worst.

Lets face it, you lie, then make insults when you get caught.

Again, I would like to see you man up and admit you are at least instigating and making insults.

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09-17-2007 06:32 AM  10 years agoPost 140
LouInSD

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Wow, the guy totally ignored my entire point, yet again!

Yes we do agree that the media spins things.

Just to make you happy, before I repost my point, I will concede to your point that I do instigate, but only when someone is pretending to not get the point. I am going to call out someone who is playing dumb each and every time.

Here it is again...please answer the question...

The thing you are failing to see about your overall argument is that it is inconsistent...

If Fox is involved in a disinformation campaign because it is a right leaning organization, how can you say that CNN, and CBS, et. al are involved in an entirely DIFFERENT (left) type of campaign when the results are nearly the same?

If they are ALL pushing the same lies, how can they be on different sides of the political spectrum?

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