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HelicopterAvant RC Avant Aurora - Mostro › Aurora where I can buy??
09-11-2007 11:41 AM  10 years agoPost 21
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

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Fact.. We pay more for the Aurora and Synergy here in the
UK with the pound than others in dollars.

Thinking globally in $$$'S

Synergy (Designed for 3D, not many setup options)
Synergy $980 with some upgrades $515 (IMO not really needed but people spend anyway.)
total $1495

Aurora (Designed for 3D.)(No upgrades required)
Heli is not even on the market and we don't know how much parts are going to cost? I find it amazing people always miss this point.
$1000

Avro (Designed for 3D and FAI)(no upgrades required)
Kit is out and parts are cheap and support is superb.
$1500

This thread is about the Aurora so lets exclude the synergy analysis.
I believe my point is proven over the synergy.

"Don't care what the blitz has on it but it aint worth $545 USD more....no way. That is 55% of the cost of the Aurora."

My reality is (and I know several others) I also fly sportsman's/FAI and the Aurora or synergy is not designed for this, at all!!
For me to fly both disciplines 3D and FAI I would need to purchase a dedicated FAI model. @$1600
Total Aurora and FAI machine ... min $2500, total kit values well over $4000

To get a machine designed for both for £1500 (3D and FAI)! Initial total savings $1000 forget any other additional equipment required to run two models, now tell me why its not worth it?

IMO the only other heli that offers the same value comes out of the JR range.

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09-11-2007 12:53 PM  10 years agoPost 22
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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FAI and 3D are two totally different disciplines. A machine good for both is the master of none. One needs an active head and the other a very stable head. The rotor speeds are very different.....this is mostly not changeable to the degree required to be at the top of each discipline. ie...rotor speed is related to gear ratio, engine speed and where the pipe wants the engine to run. Not easily changed.
There is no machine suited to both disiplines. It may be designed for it but will have to make compromises. Jack of all trades is always a master of none.

I looked at the parts and for me they wouldn't be cheap and thats why they will stay in the UK. Hell one of my dollars is worth 34 of your pence.

We had the discussion on parts prices many topics ago and the owner/producer quoted a few figures of various parts and their intended cost. They were cheaper than fixing a freya. They will still be cheaper

Example.

Avro main mast $46 nz $31 USD.......Avant main mast $39 nz $26.75 USD
Avro Canopy $161 nz 110 USD......Avant Canopy $117 nz $80 USD
Avro Main Grip $63 nz $43 USD.......Avant Main Grip $72 nz $49 USD (but it has two bearings already installed)

Granted these are Avant parts cost but the head on the aurora is their programmable head they use on an avant upgrade kit.

Prices are comparable for sure...not that far apart but certainly not "cheap" when you plonk on Shipping and any taxes applicable.

I am glad it is a descent cost for you guys though. Enjoy.

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09-11-2007 01:08 PM  10 years agoPost 23
wolfcbr2003

rrApprentice

Washington

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John M

you say the Avro parts are cheep? shipping to the US I'd not and the length of time to receive it

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09-11-2007 02:44 PM  10 years agoPost 24
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My very point. It is very comparable in $ format(talking a few $s here) so in £ format the the Avro wins hands down in the UK.
As I have said in other threads, unfortunately the US dollar exchange rate will dictate where this Heli's market would be located initially. I am just fortunate that I live in Europe For Now

"There is no machine suited to both disciplines. It may be designed for it but will have to make compromises. Jack of all trades is always a master of none."

Tell the guy who came third at the recent World F3C champs with a Electric Vibe and the guy who came second with a vibe head. We can also tell Mark who recently won a round at the British nationals with a Vibe.
I'll state now, Please do not use a Vibe called jack for 3D flying, aparently she does dot fly very good

"rotor speed is related to gear ratio, engine speed and where the pipe wants the engine to run. Not easily changed"

Avro gear ratio is changed from the side of the machine without the need to pull the whole thing apart.

(This is where I mentioned earlier IMO better designed.)

"One needs an active head and the other a very stable head".

The head gives you the options to build in several formats, 3D, sport and F3C ...... Optional head inserts and bearing placement over and above the Programable head.
From personal experiance the prog head is just too stiff for FAI and they dont really need to provide all the options. They just need to say this is a 3D head and here is the 3D setting to use without binding. None of this marketing heffer dust

While you guys are all polishing your pipes waiting for a "very soon" kit let me enjoy my Avro.

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09-11-2007 03:10 PM  10 years agoPost 25
blade3d

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey USA

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Lets sust say the Blitz will stay in the UK,, that's good enough for me,,give me the AURORA

Blade3d

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09-11-2007 03:33 PM  10 years agoPost 26
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

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Blade3D

"give me the AURORA "

Aparently you will have one very soon

Are we there yet?

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09-11-2007 09:42 PM  10 years agoPost 27
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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While you guys are all polishing your pipes waiting for a "very soon" kit let me enjoy my Avro.
Sure. Go join in the AVRO forum. I guess you wont have many takers in here.

What you described before was a machine capable of both disciplines but you also have admitted it would need to be Modified to be competitive in either just like any other heli Like the vibe. The Aurora could be changed with it's programmable head to be very soft etc etc. The gear ratio can be changed by slipping in a new main gear etc. So the Blitz is not ground breaking.

Yes it obviously wins in pounds but not in Kiwi $ or USD etc so it will never be big except in the uk. It is still an expensive heli once everything is taken into account. Also if you are talking to a bunch of hardcore 3D pilots then F3C doesn't mean a lot.

It's reasonably clear not many in here are interested in hearing about the blitz. Unfortunate and probably a good heli but not worth the extra money over what is being waited on.

enjoy your heli

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09-11-2007 11:03 PM  10 years agoPost 28
synodontis

rrKey Veteran

United Kingdom

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I really don't know what anyone means by "hard core", Is that referring to having a machine that WILL take the punishment in aggressive manoeuvres or is it a style of flying regardless of machine? Granted certain machines cannot take the aggressive punishment, and to be fair we do not have an AVRO in the hands of a serious 3D pilot, so we cannot say what issues it might have.

Why does anyone need a special machine to do these "hard core" stuff anyway? Granted the Aurora was designed from the ground up to be totally "hard core", and the test pilots will see to it that it will be able to hold up to this task.

but . . . I went to the 3D masters this year and seeing Dominik Heagele fly his plastic EVO . . . well if that's hard core, then a Freya EVO OP would suit me fine.

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09-12-2007 03:32 AM  10 years agoPost 29
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Means they aren't interested in F3C. That is what I meant by it. I can't really get into the F3C. It's a hard discipline for sure.

What does Dominic do to his freya to make it fly well in 3D? My x-spec is a fat slug on 3 D but it is very very nice to fly. Too nice for 3D I'd say. It's not nimble. It rolls quick and very true. I have the wrong pipe on it for power but it's 11.5 pounds and thats at least one to one and a half pounds heavier than the current crop of serious 3D machines. In it's present form it is far better for f3C flying than 3D. Perhaps flipping the grips and getting a better pipe and paddles may help.

The other biggy is that it is NOT simple or quick to work on. Not like a carbon stacked frame machine.

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09-12-2007 08:23 AM  10 years agoPost 30
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I know some guys in the Avro forum that love polishing their pipes! It does make it a bit more difficult when its attached to a heli though

I am not trying to start a slanging match about both helis. I know the Aurora will be good and have its own market, undisputed!
(After owning a Avant I even had a deposit for one).
I am trying to answer the statement of "why would anyone buy a heli like the Avro that is double the price". To me it works out to be a comparable but in IMO I get double the heli.
(until recently I had to import a lot of my spares from JR so lets forget postage)

After 6 months I personally could not get my programmable head to sit. The Aurora is a major 3D head and can be tamed down but not FAI'd. (I too believed the marketing hype but realistically only several options are achievable). Hence why I sold my Avant and Synergy to purchase two airskipper 90's so at least I could compete this season.

It was not a stock EVO 90 OP That won the 3D masters. It had a new head with the mixers on the leading blade grips, Upgraded hub, etc etc.
My Point again, all added together this becomes more expensive than the helis mentioned on this thread. The OP version is not available in the UK nor the upgraded parts.

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09-12-2007 09:14 AM  10 years agoPost 31
synodontis

rrKey Veteran

United Kingdom

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Dominik's machine had:

belt drive
special head (although his other machine had the standard SSZ-III I believe)
sprag bearing auto hub (this was an upgrade that will probably be standard anyway, just there for a peace of mind)
carbon boom
CCPM upgrade

and good God he was head and shoulders above everyone else!!!

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09-12-2007 11:35 AM  10 years agoPost 32
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

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to do all that you have to spend some coin......

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09-12-2007 04:39 PM  10 years agoPost 33
2.4ghz-hacker

rrNovice

right up your street

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John m
i know you fly with Dave but how far are you up hiss ass
so you got a cheap one cool good for you
but face the facts it was sh*t at the Worlds and sh*t at the British Nats and thats fact and thats on paper

now if you want to stand up and tell us all, its the Pilot well were all waiting ?

Ah who was the pilot ? got a cracking track record with JR machines what went wrong

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09-12-2007 04:42 PM  10 years agoPost 34
2.4ghz-hacker

rrNovice

right up your street

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Ah forgot it was not that great at 3d masters so if it dont do 3d and it dont do FAI it must be a scale machine

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09-12-2007 06:39 PM  10 years agoPost 35
synodontis

rrKey Veteran

United Kingdom

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Dear 2.4ghz-hacker,

I know John, I know Dave, and your comments are out of place. You will note that I said "maybe" better than the Aurora, I did not say that the AVRO was. I was merely drawing to the fact that the AVRO is available, the design is similar (even though I grant you it has not been extensively tested in hard core 3D).

The machine did fine at the Worlds and the Nats and the team trials, thank you very much.

Personally I like the AVRO (saw it fly before it was released), would have bought one if I had the room.

And this business of "it's all down to the pilots" is getting on my nerves (we ALL know the answer to that, not to mention all the marketing complications and BS that the manufacturers give - they're all as guilty as each other!!)

Helinutnz:

most of the optional parts are OK, apart from the sprag and the CCPM upgrade, but I can see Hirobo doing a plastic version to keep costs down (and a plastic version of the new head as well).

You are right about it being harder to work on, but the philosophy behind the design of most F3C machines (this is my personal take on it anyway) was that they had this trade off for better flight characteristics. For the sake of argument if you crash the Aurora I'm sure that it can withstand it quite well and be easily repaired, because the design is so simple. However, God help you if you crash a Sylphide or an Eagle 3 WC, you can easily total them, but they were designed for FAI and in FAI you hardly ever crash, in hard core 3D it much more likely to happen.

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09-12-2007 07:14 PM  10 years agoPost 36
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yip I fly with Dave.
You forgot to mention I also rent his annex but don't live there
Other facts you forgot to mention are...

I put my money where my mouth is and actually have owned and tried all the equipment I previously mentioned!

... Read carefully, all the comments above are IMO. Read some of my other posts, Avant was the best heli I have ever owned! I also made comments that there are other helis just as worthy to mention here like the Vibe. (and I have actually owned for a very short time)

.... I paid full retail price direct to Blitz. Nothing to do with Dave and his company. Once again, If you look carefully everything in the previous comments are IMO.

... What do you mean sh!t at worlds!!!! In the world’s 1st round of A schedule, Dave came 5th overall proving that the AVRO can hold its own amongst the world best, beating Curtis & being only 10.5 points behind the WC, Itou. if he hadn’t had a failed tail servo in the 4th preliminary round, he would have made the fly-offs (top 15).It also means he beat 43 other sylphides 90's caliber90's and Eagle 3's, 1 week before it s actual release. Come on!

At the British Nats, on Saturday (A schedule), Dave won 1 round, Mark won 1 round & Steve won 2 rounds. Very little in it! Hardly sh!t!!

... Demo flight rocked at the 3D masters. Flown by a guy practising F3C for worlds in a few weeks time, what do you expect, It was a demo flight, not there to win it!
http://www.3dx.eu.com/video3dm2007.htm

FYI I also know Kevin from JR and Roger from Climbout UK , so what if I know Dave, I currently fly two superb airskipper 90's and fully JR fitted (bought in the UK might I add) does that mean I am up kevins A$$????

Unlike some other pilots that I know compete, I am not sponsored or subsidised (even though some have offered) by any manufacturer or company, period!!!! Sorry I lied! got a free JR cap at the worlds (as seen in photo) and Blitz T shirt for taking some spare backup parts out for Dave.

As I am not sponsored at all, I too have to evaluate cost. This also means I can give an honest opinion on all equipment I have ever owned. As I get no benifit from this I will call a spade a spade, Take it or leave it. I paid for an Avro and so far it does not touch anything I have built so far!

Sorry let me go back onto topic, Aurora is the best heli ever invented. Where can I order one?

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09-12-2007 09:29 PM  10 years agoPost 37
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ah Forgot

2.4ghz-hacker....As I have nothing to hide and my profile and history is all open for all to view.
You obviously know who I am and probably seen me around so next time you have accusations like that about my opinions, personality or any of my heli friends, then be a man, aproach me and we can discuss this on the side!

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09-13-2007 01:28 AM  10 years agoPost 38
Vander

rrApprentice

St.Cloud,FL USA

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I paid for an Avro and so far it does not touch anything I have built so far!
At least you are honest enough to admit that all other helis you have owned have been better than the Avro

Vance

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09-13-2007 07:59 AM  10 years agoPost 39
John M

rrApprentice

Next door to the Wombles UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is an Aurora forum so it is probably what everyone wants to hear anyway? I cant even be bothered to edit it!

I have never said the Aurora will not be the "ultimate 3D machine" on the market when it eventually arrives. I am just stating why someone like me would justify paying slightly more for an Avro.
IMO(IN MY OPINION) Like the vibe I believe the Avro will be a "ultimate all rounder"!

Enjoy your Auroras

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09-13-2007 09:21 AM  10 years agoPost 40
2.4ghz-hacker

rrNovice

right up your street

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John_m
it was you who has taken this thread way off track with your bum chums heli
you have come on trying to to push his machine which imo dont fly that great were did it finish in the worlds any way ? He use to be some one to chase in the uk but not any more now he has the Avro

This is an Aurora forum so it is probably what everyone wants to hear anyway[quote]

as i say its you that has jumped in here some one aked were they can buy an Aurora not an Avro now you mention it the two words look he same change the U to a V nock off the RA got it in my opinion he nicked a lot of the Aurora ideas with a few changes of his own and most of the name as well for good luck

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