RunRyder RC
 18  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 10 pages [ <<    <     3      4     ( 5 )     6      7     NEXT    >> ] 7801 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterOff Topics › SKYDIVING
09-17-2007 05:56 AM  10 years agoPost 81
george0079

rrElite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you were to go another 40 mins south, you'd be at a much better dropzone. Not that I'm biased or anything.....

Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:02 AM  10 years agoPost 82
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Lets see.
A car traveling at 65mph directly into opposing traffic also travelling at 65mph for a combined speed of 130mph.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. If you are driving a perfectly symmetrical car at 65 mph and you have a perfect head on collision with an identical car that's going 65 mph toward you, you'll have exactly the same experience as you would if you hit a rigid barrier head on at 65 mph. The other car in this case simply ends up providing the same constraint the rigid barrier would. Either way, it wouldn't be much fun.

If you have anything other than a perfect collision (e.g. a glancing collision) you'd sustain less damage in the head on crash with another car than you would hitting the rigid barrier head on.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:10 AM  10 years agoPost 83
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dood
And this might be the last thing I see before I die.
The last thing you see before you die will be the back of your head hitting the front of your eyes

LouInSD
I've been told that statisically you're safer skydiving than getting on the freeway to go to work...
Well, I know more people who drive than jump....And I know more dead skydivers than dead drivers. In fact, I lose about one friend a year to skydiving....Of course skydiving is a small community and after 14 years you make a ton of friends. But that is anecdotal evidence...so here are some rough numbers.

The USPA (Like the AMA for jumping) has about 34,000 members, and in the US about 30-35 people die each year. Now all 34,000 members don't jump (Old, students that joined and quit...ect) but it averages to 1 out of every 1,000 members will die each year.

To put that into driving numbers.....Wiki has 231 million drivers in the US in 2003. (Some don't drive..old, some drive without a license...ect)

So 231,000 deaths a year would be expected. Actual numbers are around 42,000.

Skydiving is not as safe as driving by those numbers.

Now, you could claim per mile, per event...ect. But most times the numbers will show the same. Skydiving is more dangerous than driving. And flat out common sense would back that up.

We have a saying...Skydiving is in essence starting a chain of events that WILL end in your death unless you perform correctly and your equipment works as planned.

My buddy says it best, "How many organizations magazines include a monthly fatality report section?"

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:13 AM  10 years agoPost 84
LouInSD

rrVeteran

San Diego CA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Damn, I don't like those numbers...

I think what some skydivers quote is total deaths in skydiving compared to total deaths in traffic accidents...

not a fair comparison

Thanks for the numbers...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:23 AM  10 years agoPost 85
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

...but it averages to 1 out of every 1,000 members will die each year.
Yup. Very very similar to both hang gliding and paragliding. But here are some other surprising numbers

Timber faller/logger 1.3 per 1,000 annually
Airline pilot 1.0 per 1,000 annually
Home-built aircraft 3.0 per 1,000 annually
General aviation 1.5 per 1,000 annually
Skydiving is not as safe as driving by those numbers.
Yup.
Now, you could claim per mile, per event...ect.
Nope, your numbers make more sense. Computing statistics per mile or per hour of exposure is generally a meaningless statistical method to make your numbers look better. Imagine how safe the space shuttle is (given that it takes 6 passengers 25,000 miles for each 90 minutes of flight). The number of miles or hours belongs in both the numerator and the denominator - and therefore cancels out. The real question is "if I do this activity on a regular basis will I live to see my next birthday?".
"How many organizations magazines include a monthly fatality report section?"
A couple I subscribe to.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:24 AM  10 years agoPost 86
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A wise man once told me that when it comes to skydiving, There are 2 rules:
1. Listen to your instructors over advice from anyone else.
2. see rule number 1.
Now, of the 35 people that die each year,
how many would you say are due to:

a) mechanical failure
b) freak accidents
c) pure stupidity

  ▲
▲ ▲

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:29 AM  10 years agoPost 87
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Now, of the 35 people that die each year,
how many would you say are due to:

a) mechanical failure
b) freak accidents
c) pure stupidity
Hey, is this a trick question? These people are jumping out of airplanes hanging from something you'd buy out of the Victoria's Secret catalog! I think by definition it has to be "C" - right?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:35 AM  10 years agoPost 88
LouInSD

rrVeteran

San Diego CA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

LOL

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:55 AM  10 years agoPost 89
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A wise man once told me that when it comes to skydiving, There are 2 rules:
1. Listen to your instructors over advice from anyone else.
2. see rule number 1.
Can we add:
3. Get good instructors.

Not all instructors are made the same. I have seen some real idiots with ratings. And some top notch people without any.

The main problem is like helis, you will not know a good one from a bad one till later. So only use USPA DZ's.
Now, of the 35 people that die each year,
how many would you say are due to:

a) mechanical failure
b) freak accidents
c) pure stupidity
Uh,....Well most accidents are the direct result of someone making a mistake. I would not flat out call it 'stupidity' more an error in judgment.

The last year I wrote a year in US wrap up was 2004

Three deaths were "unpreventable" 2 mechanical failure, one freak accident (one of these could have been either). The rest were preventable IMO.

Fatalities 2004 Summary
A better year by most standards.

2 Accidents due to low/no pulls. 8%. #15 & 18.

One involved a back tracking jumper who had been drinking

One very little info but only 25 jumps.

Lessons:AAD's would have prevented these. Jumping drunk is always a bad idea.

7 Due to landing. 31%. # 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 13, 21

An improvement from last year. Still the highest number of fatalities.

Avg 786 jumps.

One panic turn. 450 Jumps

Five Maneuvers to build speed for landing. 15, 624, 201, 1100, 1116 jumps.

One just flat hooked it in 650 jumps.

One jumper tried a 270 degree hook and was really just learning to hook.

One jumper held his risers straight in till landing.

One jumper used a toggle to hook, resulted in line twists.

One jumper with 15 jumps started a turn to land and turned till impact.

Demo jumper made a bad choice to jump in marginal conditions.

Lessons:Pick your out early and pick the safest one, not the one closet to the DZ...When in doubt land safe, not close.

Learn to hook in small steps.

Realize that no Skydive is worth getting hurt. Most Professional skydivers I know have turned down money due to bad conditions.

4 Mals. 18% # 4, 7, 5, 20

3 were induced line twists.

One was a very competent jumper on a test canopy. The brake was released on opening. The spinning canopy placed the jumper in "G-loc". And he was unable to cut-away.

Lessons:Modern canopies can be placed into a malfunction. These are not safe to land, and you will lose altitude much faster than you think. Have a hard deck and perform your emergency procedures.

Test jumpers and others who push the limits sometimes stack the deck so much against them that not even high levels of skill are enough when things go bad....Know your limits, and push them a little at a time.

2 Canopy Collisions. 8% # 11,14

One was a very good canopy pilot that tried to catch a cutaway main.

Two jumpers collided while landing.

Lessons:Catching gear is not a good idea. Some of the best have died while trying this stunt...DON'T DO IT. We lose someone every few years to this kind of stunt...It is not worth it.

Keep your eyes open ALL the time. Take a lesson from motorcycle rides...Assume everyone is trying to kill you under canopy.

1 Medical Problem 4%.#8

A well known and loved jumper landed without making any attempt to control the canopy. Two reports I have about this say it was a medical problem. The jumper was 68 years old.

Unknown. 1 #2.

Military jumper...No info.

Equipment issues. 5. 22% # 10, 16, 17, 19, 22

One a student container broke on deployment. We have a had a few cases of this in the past, all were on adjustable harness systems. INSPECTION is the key.

Two were due to the use of additional equipment doing CRW. The jumpers had straps that were additional loops in the harness that the jumpers could hook their feet into. These loops were not able to be released and one of the jumpers feet became stuck.

One jumper had a premature opening. This caused his death, and the loss of an aircraft.

A jumper had a very hard opening that destroyed his canopy. He landed hard but evidenve points to a torn aorta from the opening.

Lessons:Check your gear. Inspect the rig and make sure your closing loops are tight. At the very least at every repack an complete inspection should be done. I inspect my equipment at every repack before I give it to my rigger. I also use a rigger that does a complete inspection at repack.

When ever you add something to a skydive you add danger. These two were VERY experienced and they still managed to get killed. Something to think about before you add something new to a skydive.

There have been a rash of hard opening accidents in recent years. Canopies designed 20 years ago may not be the best choice for todays skydivers. Some older canopies require attention when packing.

Detail below.
1. 1/3/2004 Spaceland, TX 450 jumps
Bad Spot. Tried to make it back to the DZ.

2. 4/21/2004 Skydive Arizona, AZ 2000 jumps
German Special Forces

3. 5/3/2004 Perris, CA 624 jumps
Tried a 270 and hit at 180

4. 6/9/2004 Skydive The Rockies, CO 800 jumps
A vague new report indicates that the jumper was filming a four-way may have induced line twists and cutaway but was unable to fully deploy his reserve before impact. About 400 then feet cut away.

5 6/19/2004 Chicagoland Skydive Center, IL 492 Jumps
It would appear that this jumper intentionally stalled his canopy several times and on the final one somehow turned, inducing line twists with uneven steering lines. The canopy started to spiral and the jumper was either unable to carrying his emergency procedures or elected not to. He impacted the ground with his lines still twisted.

6. 6/26/2004 Napoleon Skydiving Center, MI 1116 jumps
After an uneventful freefall and initial canopy descent, this jumper was observed initiating a turn to final approach by rapidly pulling his left toggle. He performed the maneuver over a paved parking area near the edge of the landing area. The canopy spun into line twists as it partially collapsed, resulting in an uncontrollable spin for the final few seconds before impact with the ground. He received immediate medical attention but died from his injuries. Either toggle, or collapse.

7. 6/27/2004 Quantum Leap Skydiving Center, MO ? Jumps
After an uneventful freefall, this jumper was observed several times during the descent using his toggles to fully stall his canopy. At approximately 1,200 feet AGL, he apparently intentionally stalled the canopy again, then suddenly let up only one toggle. The canopy spun three times before the jumper could follow, creating a triple line twist. The canopy then began a tight downward spiral. The jumper was observed trying to kick out of the line twists, unwinding one of the three twists in the short time he had left before reaching the ground. He struck the ground at a high speed, still in the spin, and was killed instantly. at appox. 100 feet or so the left side of the canopy tucked under and started a turn and when the canopy tried to recover it line twisted and Kevin impacted the ground in a spin.

8. 6/27/2004 Skydive New Mexico, NM 15000 jumps
The autopsy report listed the cause of death as multiple blunt-force injuries. However, he had suffered a torn aorta, which is a known possible result of a very hard parachute opening. The main canopy was also found to have damage associated with hard openings. Possible hard opening leading to torn Aorta.

9. 7/4/2004 Mercyhurst College, PA LAND 2000 jumps
This pro-rated jumper was blown off course and hit a telegraph pole during a demo. Winds?

10. /8/2004 Skydive Chicago, IL Student.
After a post-AFF solo dive, the jumper appeared lifeless and unresponsive under a spiralling canopy until impact. The attorney for Skydive Chicago has speculated that webbing on the harness broke, causing the chest strap to break the jumpers neck.

11. 7/10/2004 Atlanta Skydiving Center, GA Experienced
This very experience freeflyer and canopy pilot caught a cutaway main in mid-air whilst under canopy with his left leg. He caught the lines of a cutaway main with his left leg. The cutaway main spun up, locking the lines around his leg. He was trying to get the lines off his leg.

12. 8/9/2004 Skydive Suffolk, VA 201 jumps
After a uneventful skydive the jumper flew his parachute back to the DZ and turned in for final at appox 600-700 AGL and started a straight in approach at appox 300-350 he grabbed his Front risers and continued his straight in approach. He was deep into the Risers until appox. 10-15 ft AGL when he released his Front Risers and never attempted to flair or was reaching for the rear risers when he struck the ground at appox 20-25 mph

13. 8/21/2004 Perris 1100 jumps
A freeflyer was seriously injured on Saturday, 21 Aug 2004, at Perris when she impacted the ground after a low turn, resulting in severe brain trauma. She died in hospital on the morning of Wednesday, 25 Aug 2004. Aerodyne Pilot 104, W/L-ing ~1.35:1. 270 degree turn from someone not known to do them.

14. 8/22/2004 Lodi, CA 35 jumps
Canopy collision. Two jumpers were involved in a canopy collision. Both landed unconsciously, one under a main and one under a reserve. The jumper who landed under reserve died while the other was air-lifted to hospital with some broken bones.

15. 9/3/2004 Freefall Adventures, NJ Experienced
The jumper was taking part in a 2-way freefly jump. The jumper back tracked away and turned over at a very low altitude and deployed his reserve but impacted before it could deploy. It is likely that the jumper was under the effects of alcohol.

16. 10/16/2004 Denver Skydivers, CO Experienced.
Two extremely experienced CRW jumpers were in a side-by-side configuration holding grips with their feet on loops of material attached to each harness. At approximately 50 feet, the canopies transitioned into a downplane, and one of the others jumper's feet was clearly still attached to this jumper's harness.

17. 10/16/2004 Denver Skydivers, CO Experienced.
Two extremely experienced CRW jumpers were in a side-by-side configuration holding grips with their feet on loops of material attached to each harness. At approximately 50 feet, the canopies transitioned into a downplane, and one of the others jumper's feet was clearly still attached to this jumper's harness.

18. 10/16/2004 Skydown Sport Skydiving, ID 25 Jumps
Jumper impacted without deploying either parachute

19. 10/24/2004 Mid-America Sport Parachute Club, IL
As the jumper climbed out onto the step of Cessna 206, his bag came out of the container. As the other jumpers tried to indicate what had happened and attempting to indicate for the jumper the cutaway, the parachute wrapped around the right main landing gear strut. The plane went into an inverted nose dive. The other skydivers and the pilot managed to escape from the uncontrollable aircraft, deployed their parachutes and landed relatively safely (it took the pilot 4,000 feet to exit the aircraft, one leg strap clip caught on something as he escaped and it released on deployment but he managed to stay in the harness, suffering some bruising and a possible cervical vertabra fracture).

20. 10/30/2004 Skydive Arizona, AZ 5700
This highly experienced skydiver, instructor, manufacturer and DZO was jumping a 21 square foot scaled down model of a cross-braced canopy created for an exhibition. All wingsuit flyers have stated that Chris was unconscious by 8,000 feet AGL

21. 10/26/2004 The Ranch 15 Jumps
Jumper was making their first solo in an IAF progression. The jumper was headed towards the runway and some trees at about 200 feet. The jumper did not respond to radio commands to make a slow right turn for landing. The jumper burried the left toggle and completed approx. 1 1/4 revolutions before impact. Trained response personnel (jumpers) were on the scene about 20 seconds after impact. The jumper never regained any vital signs after the first minute.

22. 12/27/2004 Titusville.
Hard opening on an Original Saber damaged the canopy, rendered the jumper unconscious, and knocked a toggle loose. The jumper was unable to cut way and rode the damaged main in. The landing was un-survivable.

Other info: 10/30/2004 Jaxsonville Extreme Sports, FL.
A skydiving plane crashed shortly after take-off. A skydiving tandem-master that was on the flight died from injuries sustained in the crash. I wasn't there, but I spoke with someone who was onboard (an experienced pilot himself, but NOT flying the aircraft), and he said the plane started getting very nose high after take off, and (obviously) went into a full stall at around 100'. He said the pilot was frantically adjusting the trim trying to get the nose down.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 06:57 AM  10 years agoPost 90
Girard Ibanez

rrVeteran

Tucson, Arizona (formally from Guam)

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Anyone here skydive?

A group of about 10 of us guys from work are planning on going skydiving this weekend.
Did a Tandem jump back in 1987 in Washington State. Started out with 11 from work (Bermington ship yard) and ended up with two, me and another co-worker.

The remaining 9 bailed out a week before the schedule jump after learning of the death of a camera man. Yup, he forgot to put on his chute but only found out when he duck tailed to get to the ground to video the paying tandem jumper's decent. Unfortunate but it does happen.

It was a joy ride and a memorable one for me. Got pics and videos and hired a cameraman as well.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 07:27 AM  10 years agoPost 91
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Did a Tandem jump back in 1987 in Washington State. Started out with 11 from work (Bermington ship yard) and ended up with two, me and another co-worker.
Thats a damn coincidence.

Well, there were actually 9 of us to start with, not 10 like I said before.
We are all contractors, and yes, working at Bremerton shipyard.

Original planned jump: The reservation was never confirmed, and was lost.

1st reschedule: Rain all day, 100% cloud cover. cancelled.

new reschedule: This coming Sunday.

1 guy had to go back to Charleston, SC
1 guy is in New Hampshire.
1 guy pussed out. (he said he lost all his money at the Casino
1 guy (a former Army jumper) says his wife won't let him go

That leaves 5 of us left.

1 guy is a former Army jumper
1 guy did Tandem twice before
1 guy is ex-Airforce. He is pretty stoked.
1 guy (a different guy, is also pretty stoke, but I think he'll puss out.
Then there is me.
I went ahead and scheduled myself an AFF course. I don't want to puss out, but what if I start puking?

I played ice hockey in high school. I always used to puke and get bad poops before every game. And I think that skydiving is much too similar to ice hockey. Im scared.

  ▲
▲ ▲

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 07:35 AM  10 years agoPost 92
spork

rrVeteran

Mountain View, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I played ice hockey in high school.
O.K. then we'll explain this to you slowly (sorry - I had to go there)
I always used to puke and get bad poops before every game. And I think that skydiving is much too similar to ice hockey. Im scared.
Don't eat a big meal before hand. Don't eat greasy stuff before hand. Do eat ginger snaps (must be made with real ginger). Go through each step just saying to yourself "it doesn't hurt to take the course", "it doesn't hurt to get on the plane", "it doesn't hurt to put on my gear"...

And when it comes time to jump - don't do it if you're too scared. Nothing to be ashamed of. Just shows a good instinct for self preservation. Personally my money says you'll do it, you'll live, and you'll be thrilled you did.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-17-2007 07:41 AM  10 years agoPost 93
Girard Ibanez

rrVeteran

Tucson, Arizona (formally from Guam)

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Coincidence ... I was a Department of Defense (DOD) from Guam. Worked at the Ship Yard temporarily for 3 months since there was a zero work load for the ship yard in Guam.

Scared ... you betcha but didn't want to puss out. When I replay the video I think the scariest was the plane ride up to altitude then the doors opening as the jump master directs the pilot to the DZ. And I am on the edge of the door as he peeks behind me.

Here's what I remember during take off. "If any thing happens, I'll hook the hook to you, if I can't get the other hook on were leaving the plane. Don't worry about the pilot ... He's got his own chute."

Now there goes my mind wondering even more.

I fell out ending on my back as the instructor tries to recover to normal stance. The cameraman had to duck tail to catch up to us.

Bottom line ... I signed my life away, I did it and no regrets. I got the thrill of free falling and a parachute ride down. Less then 30 secs for a 8K drop (what a rush) and 3 to 5 minutes floating around (how peaceful).

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-21-2007 03:49 AM  10 years agoPost 94
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ground school is tomorrow.

Im going after work. Since it is a "special arrangement"
Im getting a 1 on 1 class out of it.

I don't think there should be anything really wrong with that.

  ▲
▲ ▲

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-21-2007 04:17 AM  10 years agoPost 95
EvoFlight50

rrApprentice

Southbury, CT

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-22-2007 06:10 AM  10 years agoPost 96
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ground school is over with.
I still have to do some practice PLF's, and design a landing pattern.
Then I'll be making my first jump in the AFF program.

All this for a speedy 45 seconds of FF?

  ▲
▲ ▲

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-22-2007 06:55 AM  10 years agoPost 97
nojohnny101

rrElite Veteran

10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hey
All this for a speedy 45 seconds of FF?
and memories for a lifetime...yep!

doing my first AFF in about 2 months...i'm stoked!

Thanks
~Will-i-am~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-22-2007 07:25 AM  10 years agoPost 98
LouInSD

rrVeteran

San Diego CA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dood, I envy you...don't forget to post a vid

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-23-2007 01:54 AM  10 years agoPost 99
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ground school is over with.
I still have to do some practice PLF's, and design a landing pattern.
Then I'll be making my first jump in the AFF program.

All this for a speedy 45 seconds of FF?
Yep, the PLF's will save you in the event you screw up a landing...Take them seriously.

And almost half of current fatalities have involved open parachutes...So really take flight planning seriously.

That is one of the really difficult parts of teaching a FJC....Students have a difficult time remembering a bunch of details, but everything is important.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
09-23-2007 02:24 AM  10 years agoPost 100
EvoFlight50

rrApprentice

Southbury, CT

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Are any of these guys your instructor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxma-r-0EbM

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 10 pages [ <<    <     3      4     ( 5 )     6      7     NEXT    >> ] 7801 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterOff Topics › SKYDIVING
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 18  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, September 26 - 8:56 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online