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HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › Upgrade Pro Graphite 60 to a 90...do I need all​this?
08-13-2007 12:51 AM  10 years agoPost 1
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Hi guys! I just got back from IRCHA, what an AWESOME time! The Miniature guys really know how to put on a show! I can't wait to go back next year!

Before you reply, please read the whole post!!!

Anyways, someone has offered me a 91 to put in my heli (see gallery). I've seen posts about this before, and I've done one too many years ago, but I want to check specifics. I talked to Jeff at the Miniature booth at Ircha and he thought it might be more worth my while to get a new kit (i.e. stratus) with the price I will spend to upgrade this ship. I'll start by saying I want to eventually get into smack 3d with this machine...I'm already doing some 3d with it and a 60 but power is limited and I'm ready to step up to a 90. I know the stratus is certainly capable, but is the Pro? (I'm only worried about the collective, really).

Anyways, I DON'T want this to be a thread about WHAT I should decide to do...I want to try to make that decision myself...just let me know what kind of money I'm lookin at to upgrade this machine to a 90.

Here is what I think I need, do I need more or less?

120-60 Fury Extreme Boom Kit...$109.20

122-52 Complete Clutch Bell w/12T pinion...$97.37 (not sure what engine it will be, but I assume ratio/pinion options will be same price?)

(part #?) Clutch--I have a bolt on style now, Jeff said I should get the uniball style one? My fan will work with that (it has the slots).

0549-3 Main Motor Mount .60 Size (93,94,95,96)...no longer available, what do I do/buy?

(part #?) Closed Metal tail gearbox...(I have a plastic one now)...I assume I can use the same slider, hub, and gears/input shaft? So what are the part numbers/cost for just the gearbox?

Just a micellaneous thing...I have to make a CF brace for the lower frames to deal with the extra torque...so there's like $30 for a sheet of that and mounting parts.

Anyways, by the looks of it, I'm looking at at least $300...let me know what I need! I know there are some of you out there that know this!

Thanks alot!

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-13-2007 02:51 AM  10 years agoPost 2
ADRYAN

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Stouffville,​Ontario, Canada

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I guess I am in the same boat as your are... considering converting my XL Pro from 60 to 90. My exception, I guess, is that the machine I am converting had a dull life as a 60 and spent most of it's life on a shelf. I have gone as far as making it flight worthy and have finally brought it up in the air today. (you can check my post XL Pro Ready to Fly)

So far it still has the OS61 and as per todays flight, the mechanics seem sound.

With my current setup, I am only looking to get the 11T pinion/clutch bell assembly and I already have the 90T main gear sitting around. Bob Bice from MA told me to get the entire assembly including the bearing block and that it would fit properly on the XL Pro. Also, according to OS, the OS61 and OS91 can use the same mount, except it has to be shimmed now (I think). GM1 (from RR) recommended the 4 stroke clutch that bolts on (but has to dialed in, although I don't know what he means by that).

Other than that, my XL Pro (with fury tail) seems like it will be able to handle the OS91. I think the plastic tail would be just fine too. Anyway, keep us posted. I am really interested on how yours go.

Oh, and if your worried about the mCCPM, just think of the Raptors...

A

p.s. I saw your tail pushrod, it's still using the wire thing. I converted mine to a 2 piece carbon fibre with a bell crank.

.

DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)

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08-13-2007 03:49 AM  10 years agoPost 3
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Guys,

I'm going to ask you to sit tight for a day or so until I get caught up from being away at IRCHA. In a day or few I'll write you a few paragraphs about what is REALLY involved in trying to do this conversion. I did it, and Gordie did as well. It's a lot more to it than ordering some parts.

Ben Minor

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08-13-2007 04:07 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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Hi new heli! have you considered putting a os 70szh in? it will give you a lot more power and be a bolt in option.

adryan if you add a 90,a good gyro and add any hard tail work to the combination you could blow the plastic tail box apart. you really want to get the metal or open tail box with the 90.

I see while i was writing this Dr Ben chimed in. listen to the man and you wont go wrong! Hay Ben! Bingo on the motor ,rear bearing was trash. Thanks again

Good luck to all Tom

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08-13-2007 01:44 PM  10 years agoPost 5
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Someone offered me a modified OS 70 at IRCHA but I'm getting this 90 for free so that's more enticing to me! lol

Adryan, I saw your post, looks like a nice ship!

I already have a 90T main gear, so I guess I'll need an 11T pinion to make the ratio 8.18? (If it's an OS, which I think it is).

Thanks Dr. Ben, I'll be waiting!

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-13-2007 01:54 PM  10 years agoPost 6
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Hey Adryan, I just looked at your ship again, it is completely different than mine...can we please keep this topic to my ship at least until I figure out what I need...(no offense meant at all!!!! )

Here are some pictures from my gallery

I've upgraded to the constant drive tail and a GY611 since these pictures were taken.

Thanks,
Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-13-2007 02:21 PM  10 years agoPost 7
ADRYAN

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Stouffville,​Ontario, Canada

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No Problem with that... I'll take a look at your progress, modifications and advice from the experienced MA flyers, since most likely, it will involve the same parts that need upgrading to accomodate the 90 motor.

A

.

DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)

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08-14-2007 02:58 AM  10 years agoPost 8
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Guys,

Here are some of the things you need to consider:

First the clutch. You can just thread an 11 or 12 t pinion into the bell. And the clutch WILL slip. It is for this reason that the Extremes and Strati have a H/D clutch. At least it will slip and cost you power. At most it will wear the liner out and in some cases cause it to debond from the ID of the bell. The sole remedy for this problem is the use of the four stroke clutch and bell. The clutch requires dial indicating like a Hirobo model. It is not a uniball system. The clutch system will run you over $100 if MA still has any left. Another problem..........the old 4 cycle bells used a 12 tooth pinion which was not the same thread as the current 12 tooth pinion. I'm pretty sure MA is out of the old pinions. They tried threading the new pinions into the old bell. Ask Gordie how long that worked.... (few flights, then it strips in flight and ruins the bell). If you get a 4C bell, make damn sure it has the real, correct pinion. You need to find a motor mount on ebay. Looked for a stripped one that you could repair with helicoils. Also check the shelves of stores that have carried MA parts in the past. You have to have that mount. By now, Tom's idea for using a 70 at either 9.0 or 8.36-8.45:1 may be looking pretty good. The stock uniball clutch can handle that power.

Next comes the elevator bellcrank. Used in stock form, I guarantee you the pivot bolt will shear where it enters the square cross shaft due to increased vibration and flight loads. You will then crash and destroy your model. Ask Gordie and I how we know this. The remedy that I have used on a friend's model for this problem is to counterbore the shaft so a comfortable portion of the nonthreaded part of the pivot bolt seat down in the shaft and is thus supported. The bore is a precision fit to allow a contact fit between the OD of the bolt and the ID of the shaft. Gordie has suggested using an aileron pivot studd in this location, but I fear there, too, the stud may shear at the threaed interface. It will be more supported because of the way the studd would fit against the collective arm. Choose your method, but know the bolt WILL shear and you WILL crash BADLY if the model is flown in stock form.

All the other bracing and gearbox ideas are fine.

Honestly, this is NOT a 90 sized model. You can do it and we have, but your ultimate goal of 3D smack is contrary to the design specs and intentions of this model.

Ben Minor

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08-14-2007 12:33 PM  10 years agoPost 9
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Thanks Ben

Okay, about the clutch. This 4-stroke clutch assembly that you talk of, costing over $100, would this include just the clutch or would it also include the bell and the 12T pinion? Another problem...I believe the engine I am getting is going to be an OS, which means I need the 8.18 gear ratio...which is impossible to get with a 12T pinion?

As far as the bellcrank goes, look at the pictures I posted. I have eliminated the push/pull bellcranks that are normally used for collective and elevator. Still a problem? Or were you refering to the black plastic lever between the frames that fits around the mainshaft?

About the engine mount...I've heard you can get away with milling 3mm off the face? This may be difficult for me to do as I don't have real easy access to a mill but I could do it. The mount I have now for my 60 has .030" of spacers (2 spacers each side).

From what I can tell I'd have to buy an entire tailbox kit to get the closed metal box...or at the price, the new open one.

To be honest, I'm leaning toward a new ship...but let's say I do the upgrade, how much do you think I'll spend?

Thanks alot,
Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-14-2007 06:17 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Nathaniel,

First, now that I see it, you do NOT have an Xl Pro. You have a Graphite 60. Pro's, by definition, have the engine facing forward.

The Graphite 60's/SE's can support the larger engines. There are no collective failure issues, and you can mill the mount. You'll need to mess with the center of the mount to clear the engine's crankcase.

There is NO simple suggestion for the gear ratio issue. The 4C clutch is the only one that can truly take the 90 sized power without slipping. The 4C bell (clutch and bell are a bit over $100) only can be had correctly with a 12 t pinion. The 11 tooth pinion is the wrong thread (see my other post). So you're stuck with the smaller clutch if you want 8.18. Pick your poison. You're looking at over $200 worth of parts any way you cut it.

Ben

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08-14-2007 10:48 PM  10 years agoPost 11
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Will a "modern" hd clutch from the newer helis work? My fan has the slots for the grommets and unibal type clutch, even though right now it has a bolt on style. The bearing block the clutch shaft goes through can slide fore/aft to adjust...or is the new clutch just too big to fit in there?

Thanks,
Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-14-2007 11:41 PM  10 years agoPost 12
da_man

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Central NC

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I have been breezing through this post and It just seems to me that with the price you are paying to upgrade your ship to a 90, you can probably get a decent used Fury Extreme for the same price. Maybe cheaper.

Thats the problem with xcell. The parts are too expensive, but their helicopter flies so nicely.

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08-14-2007 11:55 PM  10 years agoPost 13
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Nathaniel,

The new HD clutch is a stand alone part that threads onto the neck of the Fury driver assembly. It simply won't mount up into a SE/Pro series model.

Ben Minor

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08-15-2007 12:28 AM  10 years agoPost 14
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Okay so the 4 stroke clutch has to be ordered direct from MA? Hmm...looks like it's time for me to make my decision here soon...

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-15-2007 02:47 AM  10 years agoPost 15
ADRYAN

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Stouffville,​Ontario, Canada

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I have been breezing through this post and It just seems to me that with the price you are paying to upgrade your ship to a 90, you can probably get a decent used Fury Extreme for the same price. Maybe cheaper.
Still goes goes for a grand for a used and abused extreme here in canada. spares cost twice the price... but then again, it's an addiction .... i mean a project

A

.

DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)

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08-15-2007 01:16 PM  10 years agoPost 16
da_man

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Central NC

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Wow, spares are twice the price in canada? That's unfortunate. Anyway, I wish you luck on your project.

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08-16-2007 01:09 PM  10 years agoPost 17
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh,​Pennsylvania, USA

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Okay, I'm adding this up:

Boom kit: $110
Clutch/bell/pinion: $110
Tail gearbox: $140
CF for frame brace: $30
Mounting for CF brace: $24

So I'm looking at around $414...might want to keep that in mind Adryan!

To be honest, I think I've made my mind up on a Stratus...now I just need the $$

Thanks for all the help guys!

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

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08-16-2007 02:10 PM  10 years agoPost 18
ADRYAN

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Stouffville,​Ontario, Canada

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I just decided to keep the XL Pro as a 60.... maybe an OS70 or YS80 later on. I'm looking into a Dyna-X that's being offered to me instead... I'll see though. My 60 to 90 conversion can then be done via the TX model memory

A

.

DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)

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