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HelicopterAlignOther › Tail Wag- Please Read 1st post First
08-12-2007 06:13 PM  10 years agoPost 1
ArtK

rrVeteran

Temecula, Ca

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These are observations about tail wagging of the Align 600E and N with the thrusted T/R grips. I am writing this because I know the frustration and I hope it helps.

1. After trying every possible gyro, link, tape configuration the only thing that stopped the wag was replacing the thrusted T/R grips. I believe it is something to do with them binding at high speed. Don't know for sure because I can't get inside the T/R grips to see this. I just received this tip from others on this forum and Andy from Align replaced the grips for me and it solved the problem.

2. It is rarely a Gyro Issue.
a. Mounting Tape rarely influences this. Thin or thick it should not wag because of tape. I have seen 401's, 611, 6100 all wag not due to mounting tape issues. Thick, thin etc. Some guys use the stock thick tape, others double the tape, some use the 3m thin heavy duty mounting tape. - All works on a properly functioning helicopter. Even my 600N which initially had terrible vibration problems still held the tail rock solid with one piece of thin 3m tape on my 611. So I am skeptical that vibes will affect a high-end gyro as much as people think.

b. If the gyro does cause wag it is most likely due to gain and this is easily fixed by decreasing gain or moving the link closer in on the servo. Multiple combinations of gain and servo arm length work without a problem. If you reduce gain to much you loose T/R control which means its not the gyro. I have never had a problem making any gyro work on a properly functioning helicopter. Higher servo voltage also affects gain requiring less with more volts. But as I said you should be able to lower the gain not much lower then 30% on most gyro's and the tail should hold. If not you have to increase the gain and if the tail wags it has to be something else.

3. Sometimes it is an electric motor issue. I did observe using a different timing setting on higher voltage 4s and 8s setups for my micro and 600E greatly affected the twitchiness of the tail. By using a lower timing I was able to eliminate this.

4. Rotor RPM effects gain. Increase RPM requires a decrease in gain. (More thrust from the tail with less pitch) and vice versa.

I hope this helps. Please do not go off topic with this post. I am putting it out there for people to read and I don’t want this diluted with Align bashing etc people will loose track of trying to solve the problem.

Thanks,
Art K.
PM me if you have any questions.

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08-12-2007 07:50 PM  10 years agoPost 2
rcmarty

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Penticton , B.C.​CANADA

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Me too , wagged so bad i couldn't hover it.

I liked how the QUK stuff had 2 radials and a thrust.

So i got anoter 2 bearings and made up a set of longer bolts and did the same thing.

I sized the bolt to bottom out on the hub without loading the thrust bearing.

The only change to me heli , went from violent wagging to nothing !

My thoughts are that the thrust bearing is binding up on the sides of the grip. Hence the 'grind a touch off the outer edges of the thrust washers' mod , it provided a bit more wiggle room.

With the extra bearing in there it does the job of keeping the grip in line , leaving the thrust bearing to do what it does best. Win win if you ask me.

You will need : 2 - 15mmx3mm bolts , 2 bearings , sander/dremmel , and a bit of time.

Search out my name on helifreek for the thread , linking rr to freek doesn't work.

Martin

What goes up will come down.... one way or another !

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08-12-2007 11:27 PM  10 years agoPost 3
R.J.

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SF bay area, CA USA

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Something else to try for the slow wag. When washers are stamped out, there is a rounded edged side and a rougher edged side with burrs on it. I noticed that the tail grip is assembled at the factory with the burred end of the flat washer toward the thrust bearing. This can load the thrust bearing unevenly.

I have flipped over the washer with the rounded edge side toward the thrust bearing and have seen an improvement. This burr could also explain why some tails have the problem and others don't. The burr on some washers may not be as prominent, or more even.


The photo is after the washer has been flipped, with the burr side outward.

Regards,
Rick

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08-13-2007 01:08 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Filby

rrApprentice

Adelaide, South​Australia

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I noticed on my tail grips that they can be wiggled a fair amount. Is this normal? I have rebuilt it to make sure that align got it right in the factory (they did) yet there seems to be a lot of slop in the tail.
Is there a replacement aftermarket tail grip setup for the 600? Or does the un-thrusted tail solve the problem?

Cheers

Fil

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08-13-2007 01:58 AM  10 years agoPost 5
ArtK

rrVeteran

Temecula, Ca

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Tail Wiggle

The wiggle is OK, I would just buy another set of Align blade grips and hope for the best. You want the thrusted grips. There are after market blade grips. I think Heli Direct sells a set. If it doesn't work return it and get another set until it does work. It sucks but its the only fix I know of.

Good luck,
Art K.

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08-13-2007 02:48 AM  10 years agoPost 6
rcmarty

rrVeteran

Penticton , B.C.​CANADA

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Try the extra bearing , well worth the effort.

I have little to no side to side play , i have 2 bearings making sure it's kept to a minumum.

On my 600n build i didn't bother with the spacer.

There's a guy on the freek reply'd back with a bolt on upgrade, QUK parts i recall (longer bolt and a sleeve for the thrust washer pack).

Myself ordering out of the us is far more trouble.

Martin

What goes up will come down.... one way or another !

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