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HelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Mid Size Electric for F3C
08-11-2007 06:41 PM  10 years agoPost 1
Niko

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MD, USA

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Any recommendations on a mid size electric suitable for the AMA and F3C classes?

I am currently considering a Lepton and Razor.

Thanks
Niko

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08-11-2007 07:06 PM  10 years agoPost 2
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Your two examples may be on the light side of "mid-size".

If you're interested in electric, I have seen the Trex 600 perform pretty well in AMA class 1 and even Class 3. Obviously optimized for 3D, the birds are solid and can be tamed down to perform smoothly. Along those lines, I would imagine the new Electric Raptors would perform well, too.

Erich

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08-12-2007 02:59 AM  10 years agoPost 3
oldboldpilot

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Southern California

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ErichF,

Electrics certainly have no trouble performing the aerobatic maneuvers well. But good hover maneuvers presumably require less than an aerobatic rotor rpm - how does one get the hover rotor rpm down using the usual brushless motor? Or is this going to be the new domain of the brushed motor?

Helis are Man's Defiance of the Laws of Nature - OCHC

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08-12-2007 03:11 AM  10 years agoPost 4
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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I'm not sure, as my experience with electrics is limited to the 450 class. The few electrics I saw in competition the past two years just used different throttle/pitch curves and set a low RPM for hovering.

Now, I can understand the scope of your question. Electrics should be setup to run a certain RPM to get a certain level of performance by selecting proper gear ratio, motor kV rating, cell count, and blade sizes. The two that would be hardest to set for hover and aerobatics would be gear ratio and motor kV. Lower kV motors generally have more torque at low rpm, but can't spin up as fast and need lower gear ratios to get the aerobatic rpm up.

So, I would chose a low kV motor (outrunner) and set a low ratio. Then, you could have the low rpm for hover without lugging the motor, and still get high rpm for aerobatics. You won't be able to find a panacea for either end, however. That's part of the mystery of competition setups - making a heli perform smooth and steady one minute, then scream along at 90mph the next. It's hard enough with nitro, I can see how electric can be a bit more complex.

Erich

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08-13-2007 04:03 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Niko

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MD, USA

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I was concerned about the adjustability of the heli especially if its primary purpose is 3D. I noticed that the Lepton is advertised by Hirobo as suitable for both 3D and F3C so it might be easier to set it up for F3C than a Trex or TT. The Razor from MA also looks like a very nice machine although its considerably larger and more expensive to run due to the large batteries it requires. Having read some of the reviews on the Razor it appears that its smoother than a lot of the other 3D helis and I believe its head design is fully adjustable. Another one I am starting to think about is the Logo.

Thanks for the info
Niko

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08-14-2007 02:27 PM  10 years agoPost 6
Henrik Engert

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Cedar Park, TX

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A small helicopter like the Lepton or similar size would, in my mind, be difficult to keep still in hover and be able to do smooth manouvers. I have never owned one of thse so I might be wrong, but whenever I see one of the small things fly they seems so all over the place...

I would go with at least a 50 size or higher.

Just my thought.

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08-17-2007 07:26 PM  10 years agoPost 7
nicco

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Sweden

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If you use a Jazz speed controller, there is no problem to have 2000 for flight and 1500 for the hover.

I would also say that 50 size is the smalles one you should use.

The T-Rex 600E is flying very well and it also hovers very well. Better than the raptor in my opinion.

/N

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08-17-2007 09:42 PM  10 years agoPost 8
oldboldpilot

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Southern California

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Niko,

Someone told me the MA Razor uses a 90-sized head assy. If true, you could presumably bolt their F3C head on that heli and be ahead of the game.

One aspect of competition flying is you want your heli to fly many, many flights with no wearing out of parts/changes of trim. Methinks to get to this condition, you have to buy the highest quality equipment you can find.

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08-18-2007 12:28 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Niko

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MD, USA

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Thats a good point oldboldpilot. The problem is that the price of the RAZOR is getting close to the ION and I am starting to think I might be better off for the ION. Setup cost for the two should be similar and operating cost are going to be very similar also. I think MA needed to make something a bit lighter and cheaper with a smaller version of their 90 size head made to run with a smaller battery.

Niko

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08-20-2007 07:41 AM  10 years agoPost 10
nicco

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Sweden

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It is a large different on the batterys between a 50 and a 90 heli.

You need something like 6-8000 mAh on a 90 heli. A 50 heli needs around 4000.

I'm running 3700 on my t-rex and get a flighttime around 7 mins. If I hover and then turn down the headspeed a bit, I would get around 10 mins.

I think MA Razor is a bit heavy for F3C use, due to the limitation of 10 cells.

I suggest you buy a T-Rex 600 or a logo 600. They are light and relaible. Then you can bult on whatever head you like.

/N

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08-20-2007 08:41 AM  10 years agoPost 11
Henrik Engert

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Cedar Park, TX

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There were pilots at the Worlds that were running electric helicopters in the 90 size without problems. This is even with full bodies on them...They run between 5000mAh and 8000mAh.

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08-26-2007 01:00 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Niko

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MD, USA

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I am reaching the conclusion that for me the midsize or larger electric birds are not practical.

If I go to the field to practice I want to be able to get about 6 flights in a couple of hours and not have to spend the entire day there . To get close to this I need at least 4 packs of batteries. At $500 or more per pack that is too expensive.

Niko

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09-04-2007 01:02 AM  10 years agoPost 13
iyoy

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Bacolod City,​Philippines

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At the 2007 Worlds in Wloclawek, Poland, Curtis Youngblood used an electric JR to take 3rd Place. Mr. Nielsen of Denmark flew an electric Scorpion.

Both flew without problems except for Curtis not having enough charge left in the batteries at the end of one of his flights due to some technical problem.

iyoy

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09-04-2007 01:36 AM  10 years agoPost 14
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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He also had issues with excess noise...of all things

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09-04-2007 03:40 AM  10 years agoPost 15
iyoy

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Bacolod City,​Philippines

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Noise was caused by the blades. BTW Erich F, were you there? Which country? If yes, I regret not having the pleasure to meet you.

iyoy

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09-04-2007 12:25 PM  10 years agoPost 16
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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I had read on the US F3C site that a lot of noise was gearing related, as well.

No, I wasn't there. Maybe at the next one here in the US. My flying buddy, Rolando, was the US Team manager.

Cheers,
Erich

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09-04-2007 01:20 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Spacey

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Pretoria, South​Africa

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Both flew without problems except for Curtis not having enough charge left in the batteries at the end of one of his flights due to some technical problem.
I think that was one of the most memorable flights I had the chance of watching at the event. All Curtis had left to do was the auto as he lost power coming out of the pushover. We couldn't say for sure if he was just trying to come back to the hover box safely but it certainly looked like Curtis was giving it all he got trying to nurse the machine up to a useable height to squeeze in the auto, he had plenty of time to spare and heck he put on one hell of fight....she just wouldn't go any further.

We had the chance to watch each of Curtis's flights (As if we were gonna miss one anyways?!?) and there's no doubt in my opinion that he had more power to spare then 99% of the glow machines there. Scott's Sylphide is something to see when it gets going but Curtis's parrot looking (I still can't quite get used to the shape ) monster was just scooping air like something not from this earth. Awesome to see him make the best use of it also.

Cheers,
Rudolf

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