RunRyder RC
 10  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 6 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 5524 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAlignOther › tail still wagging
08-10-2007 10:00 PM  10 years agoPost 1
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi all
I had problems with my tail wagging on the 600n pro with gy401 mounted on the two front servos and took some advice from the forum and moved it to the back and also changed the rudder servo to a 9254 as suggested here and tail still wags I have today added another two bearings to the torque tube but have not had the chance to fly today, will hopefully get out on sunday hopefully this will cure the problem has anyone else had similar issues, as if the extra bearings don't cure the problem I am not sure what else to do.
My tx is a ff9 and have tried turning the gain right down in small increments to 25 still to no avail any suggestions would be appreciated (sensible ones only though please)

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:18 PM  10 years agoPost 2
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida​...28N 81W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have today added another two bearings to the torque tube
How does this affect wag ?? Seems to me the torgue tube is rotating hundreds of times faster than wag. I could see adding bearings if you had tail vibration, but wag ??
I know this is not a suggestion, but I too have some wag I'm trying to eliminate.

Paul

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:31 PM  10 years agoPost 3
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Paul thanks for the response
The tail is fine until it gets light on the skids and then darts from side to side about 50 mm either way very rapidly at first i thought something must be bent or something, I'm still a novice at this hobby but the experienced guys at my club are a bit stumped as all is brand new and there seems to be nothing that is obviously wrong.
I am just getting a bit frustrated as i have a rappy 30 that has been around the world and back and flies great but i cant seem to get the trex sorted.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:35 PM  10 years agoPost 4
702nitro

rrKey Veteran

Las Vegas, NV

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

gyro brand new? tail servo new?

Maybe it's the Rx

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:40 PM  10 years agoPost 5
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida​...28N 81W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK, this is from a 'two gallon expert' but I will throw it out anyway, cost nothing to check.
Any play or slop in the control mechanics to the tail rotor (ball ends, tail pitch linkages and other tail pich controls) may cause wag.
Any sticky or binding in the control also may cause wag. Make sure everything moves smoothly without binding and NO slop.
You probably already checked this, but.........

Paul

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:43 PM  10 years agoPost 6
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi 702 nitro
Yeah everything brand new, I had a different servo on the rudder originally (brand new) but was later advised that it was perhaps not the best sevo for the job so changed it for the 9254 which i believe was designed for the gy401.
Just can't work it out mate.
It will probably turn out to be something really daft but I just can't find it at the moment.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:45 PM  10 years agoPost 7
ringram2077

rrApprentice

Birmingham, AL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You probably have checked this already but is the TR pushrod mechanism free from any binding. Needs to move smoothly. How long is the arm on the 9254 ? Other than that vibration could cause the 401 to act up. I have seen similar from a 611. Also if the engine is tuned such that it is not constant rpm on the pipe it will make the tail wag.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 10:56 PM  10 years agoPost 8
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi ringram 2007
The engine is a os50 hyper that has only had about 3 tanks of fuel
The tr pushrod was shortened to try and eliminat the binding which is now very minimal but could not tell you the lenght to be honest.
I am new to the hobby about 5 months, but have had some experienced guys at my local club look the heli over and could find nothing wrong until you get it light on the skids

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 11:08 PM  10 years agoPost 9
ringram2077

rrApprentice

Birmingham, AL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Are you running the OS50 very rich to break it in ? That possibly could cause some wagging. When you start to lean it out it might improve the situation. Just a guess for now.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 11:12 PM  10 years agoPost 10
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida​...28N 81W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

In addition to my previous suggestions a couple of more things that has caused tail wag for me.

GYRO may be loose. Mine came loose during a low level flight and boy did I see some tail wag then.

Training gear may cause tail wag if its loose. Right wag freq and the traing gear makes it a whole lot worse. Generally, if the training gear is tight to skids, no wag created by training gear. NOTE: I said generally.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 11:51 PM  10 years agoPost 11
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am still using training gear at the moment and would like to think its tight enough but a buddy of mine has flown the heli without traning gear and still the problem happens, as for the gyro it is as tight as a ducks ar*e and not going nowhere, and thats why this problem's baffling the sh*t out of me

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-10-2007 11:56 PM  10 years agoPost 12
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

is it at all possible that my torque tube maybe bent or out of balnce from the factory (god forbid) and if so would this causw this problem.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-11-2007 12:17 AM  10 years agoPost 13
ckoelliker

rrElite Veteran

St. Simons, GA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Did you balance the fan, hub, and clutch assembly. When these vibrate it can shake the tail. It acts very similar to a gyro problem.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-11-2007 12:37 AM  10 years agoPost 14
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

No all out of the kit thought it would be all ok as said am novice.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-11-2007 01:48 AM  10 years agoPost 15
TT2

rrApprentice

Nakhonsawan Thailand

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1. Blades might be out of track...sounds weird I know, but it happened to me.
2. Engine too rich.
3. Check the head for excessive play. My first set of dampers were SHOT before the first gallon through the 600N...lots of slop.
4. Your gyro may be set up wrong.
(a) The 'limit' value on the gyro should be between 100 and 140. If it's under 100 then move your ball link one hole in on the servo arm and turn the limit up just below the limits of mechanical travel.
(b) The 'delay' value should be ZERO when using an S9254 servo.
(c) Gyro may not be mechanically centered. Center it mechanically in rate mode, trim to neutral by adjusting the linkage...not your radio's trims. Once it's trimmed mechanically in rate mode, with the rudder stick (and trim) at neutral, flip the gain switch quickly (about .5 sec each click) at least 3 times, then flip it to AVCS mode. This will make the gyro 'remember' where the 'zero point' is. Your gain switch needs to be set up so that you are flipping between AVCS and rate mode for this to work.
(d) Your gain might be too high. To test this, fly (or have someone fly) as fast as the heli will go, turn, and look for wagging during the turn. If it wags then the gain is too high. Turn it down a very small amount at a time until the wagging disappears.

That will get the GY401 about as dialed as you can get it. I was having the same problems with mine and it turned out to be a combination of the delay not set right and the gain was too high. Now I can fly as fast as the 600N will go sideways, and do ridiculously fast tail-in funnels without the tail blowing out. I'd like to thank Jason Bond for helping me get mine straightened out.

Hope this helps,
-Tom

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-12-2007 06:31 AM  10 years agoPost 16
Filby

rrApprentice

Adelaide, South​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

We have three 600N's at the club today. All of them exhibited a tail wag at high RPM's (1800-2100) One has a TT so thats not the issue. We all have different gyros (401, 770, 611). We all have different blades and tail blades. We all run 50hypers,and we all have different pipes. One guy decided to chuck in his TT50pro and the shake went away.
If ya listen carefully to the hyper at high rpm you can hear it very quickly rev up and down a little pit. I've tried tuning rich, tuning lean and it doesn't make any difference...I believe its to do with the fact that the hyper at hover is unloaded as the heli is very light and the motor just wants to rev.

Fil

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
08-12-2007 10:14 PM  10 years agoPost 17
micknick

rrApprentice

united kingdom​Rainham kent

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for all the advice guys I am going to work my way through your suggestions until hopefully the tail stays firm

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-12-2007 10:40 PM  10 years agoPost 18
lightningrc

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I added extra 2 bearings on my tail plus on the short front rod you need to ethier sleeve it with carbon or do like I did and cut a length of fuel tube and slice it and fit over the thin rod.

The front rod vibrates like crazy causing the tail servo to go wild !!!!

Think this problem is worse on the stiffer pro version and with new rich running engines.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
08-12-2007 11:00 PM  10 years agoPost 19
bobj

rrVeteran

United Kingdom

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi

The number one problem guys have with the 600N tail is using too big a servo arm, it only needs to be about 13 or 14mm (haven't actauly measured mine!) as the gearing on the tail linkage is high, I can run 30% gain on the 611 gyro with this set up at 2100 on the head.
Tail is very locked in!

It so helps stabilise the tail if you glue the plastic horizontal fin clamp on to the boom so it can't slip.

Cheers
Bob J

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
08-12-2007 11:07 PM  10 years agoPost 20
lightningrc

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I tried moving in a hole when I had problems , originally I just copied what I had on my E version both using 401s and 9354s

The tail was just then too slow and I ended up running around 90% gain , went back to the outer hole setting .

Heli is now perfect !!

I also think this heli and a new hyper 50 need to run afew gallons to settle them in .

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 6 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 5524 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAlignOther › tail still wagging
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 10  Topic Subscribe

Monday, November 20 - 7:20 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online