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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › New to the Gasser world, need help oil:petrol
08-10-2007 04:58 PM  10 years agoPost 1
u52ah

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Kuwait

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I got me a Hanson modified Z260 "Pro Plus Mod" for a Century Condor.

I am totally new to gassers (although 3 years in nitro), so I am clueless about the petrol and oil ratios.

What do you guys use for Break-in? and Normal operation?

Thanks !

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08-10-2007 05:09 PM  10 years agoPost 2
Chowdher

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Victoria, BC, Canada

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I have had great success with camper fuel mixed at 1 gallon fuel:3.5 oz oil. Roughly 35:1.

Rbort has been a supreme help to me in getting things set up!! Great guy to talk to and ask questions! Drop him a note.

It's not just good... it's good enough

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08-11-2007 07:05 PM  10 years agoPost 3
gorn

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Western Australia

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I use pump gas, went full synthetic from the start, 32:1 ratio, about 1 1/2 turns out on both needles, still breaking her in.
Be sure to get an oil that is MADE to ONLY be a premix oil. Anthing that is for marine use is a no no too.

For the love of the hobby

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08-12-2007 10:22 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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We use Mobil1 fully synthetic 2T oil or Maxima Racing Fully Synthetic 2T oil. always use a high quality fully synthetic oil because this is where the life of your engine rely. as to ratio it depends on the climate of the place where you are flying. better ask a gasser flyer around your area to suggest you some ratio. Welcome to the Gasser world.

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08-13-2007 03:58 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Excalibur

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There is a ton of information available on this forum. Your best bet is to use the search function and enter several different keywords like "gasser tuning" or "231 and 260", etc.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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08-13-2007 06:21 PM  10 years agoPost 6
u52ah

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Kuwait

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Thanks everyone for your inputs, well, unfortunately it seems that I am the only one who's going to fly a gasser around here.. so I am on my own (just like when I first started nitro helis !) My only source of information is some guys who fly gasser airplanes. they don't seem to worry much about tuning and types of mixtures!

yep, I'v been searching around for a while.. I found tons of Ashless oil ,, is that an OK oil for break-in ?

Klotz is also available here (which is recommended by Hanson)..

gonna be an interesting experience I am sure! fingers-crossed!

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08-13-2007 06:38 PM  10 years agoPost 7
gorn

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Western Australia

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I would go with the Klotz for breakin if I were you.
I had no access to it here, and didnt like the alternatives available.
So I just went full synthetic from the start.
Yep breakin takes longer, but who cares, I got time lol.
And with 20 minute flights, it gives me plenty of time to get aquainted with my big girl before we do anything stupid together lol

For the love of the hobby

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09-20-2007 12:15 PM  10 years agoPost 8
u52ah

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Kuwait

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guys, I also found MOTOREX 2 stroke oil , anyone has any experience with those?

http://www.motorex.com/index.cfm/fu...-1351-1359-1362

do you think that'll work? (supposed to be high quality and used for motorcycles)

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09-20-2007 01:03 PM  10 years agoPost 9
BrunoBL

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Pomerode, SC, Brazil​ -26.71, -49.17

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I would go with the Klotz for breakin if I were you.
I had no access to it here, and didnt like the alternatives available.
So I just went full synthetic from the start.
In hindsight I would have gone synthetic from the start if I were to do it again.

I wanted to be "safe" so I started out with 25:1 mineral oil. This resulted in an incredible mess of hardened carbon/oil residue that stuck my piston ring twice! Problems only went away after I switched to Motul synthetic at 36:1. I also stopped using auto gas. My flying club makes Avgas available, so I'm using it (see recent, related post).


...Bruno.
Spectra G on Avgas 100LL, Jewel generator
T-Rex450SE V2
DX7

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09-29-2007 11:59 AM  10 years agoPost 10
u52ah

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Kuwait

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So I take that Klotz is not a fully synthetic oil right?

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09-29-2007 02:08 PM  10 years agoPost 11
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Breaking in that engine is important. I know somebody here who was having problems getting his Hanson G260RC engine running smoothly. He had run it with Amsoil from the start and the ring did not bed in. He changed oil and used Stihl chainsaw oil, broke her in and now it runs much smoother. This is a cameraship installation though so you may not be so worried about smooth running.

A low ash straight mineral oil will work okay for breaking in. I do my engines with Ace Hardware chainsaw oil at 36:1 ratio. Don't run it lean and don't overload the engine and you should start seeing results after approx. 4 liters of fuel have been run through it.

The Klotz should work fine for you and is fully synthetic oil. Not sure what ratio to recommend. Maybe somebody who uses it can help here.

Paul.

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09-30-2007 11:00 AM  10 years agoPost 12
u52ah

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Kuwait

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actually, i am very worried about how smooth the engine will run as I am using the heli as a camera ship.

unfortunately , i did not find klotz, I went with fully synthetic Red Line oil, which is supposed to be the best! .. anyways. today is going to be my first test flight of the gasser, fingers crossed

gonna mix it at 28:1, the lubrication property supposed to be very high so that ratio should be fine for break-in

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09-30-2007 12:59 PM  10 years agoPost 13
FCM

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Surrey, England

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which is supposed to be the best! .. anyways.
Try finding an oil manufacturer that claims their oil is second best

28:1 is way too much oil especially fully synthetic. Understand that I break my engines in with mineral oil at 36:1.

Paul.

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09-30-2007 06:37 PM  10 years agoPost 14
u52ah

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Kuwait

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paul, i wish I'v read your post before I went for the first test flight, the engine was 4-stroking like crazy, some insane occuasional vibes. barely hovered at 1000rpm. decreasing the oil content seems to be my next obvious step.

I gotta ask this,, I tried setting the throttle curve based on bits of information from here and there, it didn't go very well. couldn't even start the engine at my setting.

what's the throttle curve you guys normally use?

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10-01-2007 05:53 AM  10 years agoPost 15
Excalibur

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U52AH:

Several things here are out of whack. Like Paul said, 28:1 is drowning that poor engine in oil, which can also affect your tuning at such a heavy ratio. You can break-in an engine with synthetic oil, but it just takes too many gallons and too long to smooth out and start behaving. Do yourself a favor and mix up a gallon of fuel with a standard ashless oil at somewhere between 32:1 and 36:1, then run the entire gallon through the engine (with proper tuning of course). Never run the engine lean during this time, or allow it to bog down; which leads me to my next point. . .

A red flag popped up regarding your statement about barely hovering at 1000 RPM. If that is really the case, you are BOGGING the engine, which is a BIG NO-NO to prevent overheating (especially a brand new engine). You should have your head RPM up to at least 1550 to 1600 RPM to start. Even wood blades can take that speed. Adjust your throttle curve to achieve this. Remember, collective blade pitch determines your hover point, NOT head RPM. Head RPM must be up high enough to provide enough power to accommodate it, however.

Needle settings are critical, especially during break-in. Ideally, you should set both the Hi and Lo needles to 1-3/8 open (or a little more during break-in), then adjust your throttle curve for the desired RPM (1600 RPM as indicated previously). Resist the urge to adjust them while you're running the gallon of ashless through it, they need to be a bit on the rich side. Also, tighten the muffler bolts after every tank to prevent an exhaust leak, which will lean the engine out and screw up your tuning (and increase risk of damaging the cylinder and piston). The following link may be helpful as well:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...1/?p=2878840#RR

In addition, do a search for engine tuning and break-in on this gasser forum and others as well. There are a number of gurus who have posted their expertise all over the web to help you out. Good luck.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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10-01-2007 07:06 AM  10 years agoPost 16
u52ah

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Kuwait

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xcal, thankyou for your input, I must admit everything you said sounds logical, I went ahead with this mix according to the instructions that came with Hanson's engine. (synthetic 4 1/2 ounces per gallon) everybody at the field said it was waaay too much especially for the type of oil I was using.

the instructions also stated to put the needles on 1 1/2 turns open on both as a starting point..

I did feel that what was going on was totally wrong. I barely hovered at 1000rpm but quickly landed and stopped the engine. i did not fly more than just 1/4 of the tank and didn't touch the needles.

I'll probably follow your advice on using an Ashless oil mix at a higher ratio. otherwise this is going to take forever.

what really puzzled me the most is the throttle setting, many told me at 25% throttle is the hovering point. but when I see through the carb, the butterfly is barely opening. I have my throttle linkage so it is moving the carb the entire length with minimum endpoint adjustments.

maybe I should turn on the governor at low RPM, but that'll mask out my needle tuning needs.

I'll give it another go and see.. I hope I can start it with the blisters on my hands from yesterdays starting dilema.

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10-01-2007 07:24 AM  10 years agoPost 17
FCM

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Surrey, England

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I second all that Excalibur wrote

Forget how much the throttle butterfly is open - set the pitch range and adjust the throttle curve to give you your head speed. Playing with percentages will lead you nowhere.

Try 32:1 mineral oil mix if you are worries that 36:1 is too little oil (it isn't, but I don't want you to worry). Do not add any camera mount or other payload when breaking in the engine. Make sure the engine is not overloaded especially during the first 4 liters. You can try 1 1/2 turns open on the needles but it will be running really rich. Running too rich can lead to bogging and overheating - not recommended especially with the 260 engine that is getting a reputation of seizing during break in. It can also stick your piston ring. If in doubt do what you have just done - land the heli and give it some thought instead of running it until it is damaged.

Not sure what advice to give with your Red Line oil. Most synthetic oils seem to be able to run at 40:1 ratio without problems so I would try that once you have broken the engine in unless we hear from somebody who has experience with this oil.

Paul.

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10-02-2007 02:26 AM  10 years agoPost 18
Excalibur

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U52AH:

Something else just occurred to me about setting up your gasser.

In order to get the power needed to spin the blades with collective pitch applied, it is critical to setup the mechanical throttle linkage on the carburetor (throttle arm) and the throttle servo. This is explained on Page 25 of the Predator Gasser manual:

http://www.centuryheli.com/support/..._Manual-WEB.pdf

This method was developed by the great guru of gassers, Bill Meador, and has proven to be the optimal mechanical setting for the Zenoah PUH engines. This was just added to the manual within the last year or so, and will give you a good starting place.

Oh, and as a side note, I need to correct something I said in my previous post. After reviewing the entire thread, you indicated that you were running a Century Condor. If you have the 800mm or longer main blades with a stock plastic rotorhead, DO NOT RUN THEM OVER 1450 RPM's MAX! I believe this is for carbon fiber blades only. If you are running wood blades, check an independent reliable source. I was thinking it was a standard Predator - my apologies. Keep us posted.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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10-02-2007 06:34 AM  10 years agoPost 19
u52ah

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Kuwait

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Xcal,I figured you were talking about a standard predator, my blades are 810mm so I was kinda targeting the 1250-1350rpm.

and about the throttle setup, yep, I saw the addendum in the manual and went ahead with it, my linkage moves the carb the entire length without alot of EPA adjustments.

thing is, when using this setup, 0% throttle means full engine stop. so in my throttle curve I increased this to about 10% at low stick to get the engine starting (I almost never use trims) and people told me that 22-25% is the hovering point, so that left me very little linkage motion from low to mid stick.
anyways, I'll have to change this idea and try to experiment with throttle percentages near hovering range.

about the oil.. I think for now I'll use 35:1 or 36:1, coz 28:1 was waay too oily and it sounded that the engine didn't like that.

for needle, I'll start by leaning the low-end screw abit to see if there are any improvements.

that all will probably happen today.

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10-02-2007 10:46 AM  10 years agoPost 20
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Something that may not be obvious to you so I will point it out now:
You can and should run a higher percentage of mineral oil compared to fully synthetic. If you have found that 28:1 ratio is far too oily with the Red Line then expect similar results at 36:1. If you want to run 36:1 then use mineral or semi-synthetic oil.

The problem with running all that oil is that you will be tempted to lean out the mixture in order to get it to run clean. This is when you are in danger of overheating the engine especially when it is new and a 260. If you want to stick with the Red Line for beaking in then by all means try it at 36:1 but do NOT lean out either needle if it will not run clean. Instead, cut the oil rato to 40:1 and try again. Do NOT run either needle less than 1 3/8ths open. If you do then we will see you back here for the strip and rebuild!

Paul.

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