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HelicopterAlignOther › 600N Frame Flex
08-10-2007 08:14 PM  10 years agoPost 21
jaxrotor

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Jacksonville FL

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MJ...Align has some real nice ones..and Infinity hobbies

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08-10-2007 08:15 PM  10 years agoPost 22
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Everything flexes

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-10-2007 08:18 PM  10 years agoPost 23
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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So are you saying that the difference would be in "huge" flight improvement?
Not neccessarily but you have to remember the head is what's jerking the fuselage around. When the head shifts abruptly, say on hard right or left cyclic, the frame flexes first at the top block then the rest of the heli follows. Would there be a performance benefit. It's possible.

Just like some say reducing radio latency improves performance. Every little bit helps.

My only concern, if any at all, is upper frame cracking. Who knows this could even have an effect on the one way?

The sky is falling

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-10-2007 08:24 PM  10 years agoPost 24
kingair

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Utah - USA

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But the head is attached to the mains shaft which I consider pretty dang stiff. I guess I'm saying I believe the main shaft is part of the structure of the frame. I can't visualize any flexing above the bottom main bearing. Below that, who cares as long as the skids follow eventually, everything ends up at the same place.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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08-10-2007 08:30 PM  10 years agoPost 25
DS 8717

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Here wishing i was​somewhere else

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Yea your pretty much flying the head and tail rotor,everything just tags along for the ride.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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08-10-2007 08:32 PM  10 years agoPost 26
kingair

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Utah - USA

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Ha, MR10X I just figured out your sig line, good one!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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08-10-2007 08:53 PM  10 years agoPost 27
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Even jamming the swash around the head acts on the whole mainshaft. The top doesn't really flex first or twist it is supported at 3 points that share the load and are spread out along the frame to provide support.

I'm all for an improvement in rigidity if it is lighter. But it's not worth any weight gain. I suppose you could consider the flex in the whole mainshaft, all three bearing blocks and how it is tied into the lower frame. But the forces are so spread out and small I can't see how it could be deemed inadequate. Even an r50 supported by two points at the top that are reasonably close together has no issues.

Mike

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08-10-2007 09:04 PM  10 years agoPost 28
AzHyper

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Peoria, Az.

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Unfortunately flex causes misalignment which robs you of available power to the head. Just think of Mavrikk blades.

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08-10-2007 09:17 PM  10 years agoPost 29
kingair

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Utah - USA

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AzHyper, what's your opinion on flexing in this case. Do you think there is power lost to flexing? Do you think there is any more flexing than any other heli has?

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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08-10-2007 09:22 PM  10 years agoPost 30
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Even jamming the swash around the head acts on the whole mainshaft. The top doesn't really flex first or twist it is supported at 3 points that share the load and are spread out along the frame to provide support.
I know it's not the same forces acted upon the frame as are in flight but the upper area flexes big time just by wiggling the head side to side if you hold the main part of the frame while moving the head side to side. So much for the three bearings doing that much good. The difference is in flight nothing is restricting the frame so the top end may see less flexing in actual flight. All depends on the actual load vectors that occur during maneuvers and how they load the main shaft/frame in abrupt changes.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-10-2007 09:43 PM  10 years agoPost 31
AzHyper

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Peoria, Az.

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Though I have seen the G10 version up close and personal, I haven't looked for any sloppy areas there. I have two carbon versions. I'm pretty anal about setup, etc. I do think the plastic main bearing blocks are too easy to deform. I can even cause mainshaft drag due to misalignment by very slightly overtorqueing (or undertorqueing) one or two bearing block bolts. I guess if I were really concerned I'd add some additional frame braces and replace the plastic bearing blocks with metal. BUT, the darn things fly so incredibly well that I intend to just beat up on it as is. I'm not a good 3D guy so I probably don't stress the frame much anyway. Besides, whatever slight power loss frame flex may cause is probably more than compensated by the low overall weight of these machines along with their tight CG. My opinion is if it bothers you - fix it - otherwise fly the crap out of it as is.

One last note - I think a lot of inexperienced builders have gotten their hands on these machines. This is really a simple yet very precise design that shouldn't be slapped together like a two piece Raptor frame. I think TT understood their target buyers very well and made the construction nearly foolproof. The 600N benefits greatly from simple care and understanding during assembly. Michael "Raptortechnique" Prewitt is starting to document his 600N build. I hope this helps those without a lot of building experience understand that the frame alignment is a very critical step.

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08-10-2007 09:58 PM  10 years agoPost 32
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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AzHyper,

I removed the top shaft retainer and added thrust bearings inside, under the upper bearing block and above the lower bearing block. I don't know if it's just me, I wasn't expecting it but it certainly feels like I have a little more power and the motor seems to bog less. I didn't change anything else.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-10-2007 10:14 PM  10 years agoPost 33
AzHyper

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Peoria, Az.

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Great innovation! I was re-reading your original post about the frame flex near the top bearing block. The carbon frame does it too. Maybe enough that in the air it might almost feel like eCCPM interaction. Unless I eventually find stress cracks I think I'll just enjoy the darn thing. I mean, I REALLY like the "roll on a string" it has just like my Fury. This is a great machine and I don't want to be too critical about perfection.

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08-11-2007 02:25 AM  10 years agoPost 34
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Just got back from flying. I took off the Align carbon tail blades and put on a pair of woven NHP's

Looks like the Align tail blades fall into.. "you get what you pay for" because they must have been inducing some vibes all the way up to the landing gear.

Now it's perfectly still... no vibes whatsoever.

I also looked up close while the heli was spooled up on the ground, I see NO movement at the top bearing block. Frames look solid.

Really flying great.

Power is over the top.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-11-2007 02:44 AM  10 years agoPost 35
AzHyper

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Peoria, Az.

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The tail blades must be inconsistent. Were they the black or white version? Mine (black) are balanced and the entire heli is glass smooth. I really think that, as so many have already mentioned, this bird should just be enjoyed for what it is and how it performs at this point in R/C heli history. I don't think there is much to dislike...

As I think about it though, the G10 version with all of its differences from the carbon version may not have been tested as well as the initial release. Rest assured, Align is dynamic enough to remedy those simple issues in short time.

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08-11-2007 03:15 AM  10 years agoPost 36
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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They are the white ones. They didn't look that great out of the package. Looked like a poor paint job that had been touched up.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-11-2007 04:24 AM  10 years agoPost 37
laddy

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Midland Texas

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Perhaps these will make the frames a little stronger.
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/produc...roducts_id=1913

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08-11-2007 05:40 AM  10 years agoPost 38
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Wow. They really just keep it coming. I doubt it will fly any better (I don't know how it could), but they sure are nice to look at. Even looks like they are light.

Mike

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08-11-2007 10:21 AM  10 years agoPost 39
r/chelisrme

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winona, ms - usa

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Is it possible that your thrust bearing upgrade beneath the top bearing block is carrying the main load and is causing more flex there rather than all three bearing blocks carrying the load equally? I am still building my nitro pro and I am still planning on using your advice by adding a thrust bearing and collar there. Where did you get one from? Aren't they 10mm? I was telling a friend at the field about your using a thrust bearing and collar there to help take the load off the gears and one way and that I was planning to upgrade my heli with one as well. He flies a Fury Extreme 90 and said that he's been doing that for years and that it was considered and upgrade for the Fury. He said it definitely makes a difference during autos and a possible power increase due to less binding in the gear areas. I am currently at the point in construction where I'm trying to create a perfect bracket for my Rev Max limiter sensor to be mounted on the inside of the frame.

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08-11-2007 10:31 AM  10 years agoPost 40
dannyh5

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England

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Hootowl, When you have a little more experience in the aircraft industry you will realise that carbon will not form a stress crack, so as time passes nothing on the heli will change due to frame flex. 17 years as an airframe tech.

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HelicopterAlignOther › 600N Frame Flex
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