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HelicopterMain Discussion › Let us save the 2.4 GHz for the RC ! (EU)
08-12-2007 12:56 PM  10 years agoPost 21
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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I have seen 2.4GHz equipment for RC in the shops already. Was that legal? What is the official reading for people that bought legally permitted equipment and now have something they are not allowed to use? Does the government pay them a refund?

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08-12-2007 01:19 PM  10 years agoPost 22
Angelos

rrKey Veteran

nr Oxford, OX11, UK

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Once again... the issue you have in Belgium has nothing to do with RC. It is related to all 2.4GHz communicatios including WiFi.

Go to CISCO website and scroll down to Belgium. http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td...30/rm21eucp.htm

Belgium

Outdoor usage is only allowed when operating in the 2.4-GHz band. Outdoor wireless links with a range in excess of 300 meters need to be notified at the Belgian Institute of Postal services and Telecommunications (BIPT). Please check http://www.bipt.be/langue.htm for more details.

Or this one: http://madwifi.org/wiki/UserDocs/LongDistance

Belgium

Power is limited to 100mw p.i.r.e with the antenna given with your hardware. Your network is limited to 300m.
You have to buy a licence to IBPT if you want more: 850 Euro for a private network (only once) You have to declare to the IBPT what hardware you use. You also have to notice them when you change or add hardware.

-Angelos

Spartan RC R&D

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08-12-2007 01:48 PM  10 years agoPost 23
Maybe

rrNovice

Hoovering around

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@Angelos,

Maybe you're right.

The Belgian Institute of Postal services and Telecommunications (BIPT) did NOT have any official point of view (not ILLEGAL) for RC modellers using 2.4 Ghz BEFORE JULY 2007.

Same story in GERMANY.

Other European countries will follow soon
Was that legal?
No it wasn't ILLEGAL

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08-12-2007 04:31 PM  10 years agoPost 24
skywalkertje

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Belgium

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According to the VML website the decision from the Belgian BIPT still needs to be ratified, so I guess there is still hope since there has not been any official statement about this on their website. I hope that the importers (Robbe, Graupner and MCM) and VML and AAM can resolve this issue with BIPT soon.

I would be kind of strange that Belgium would be the only country where 2.4gHz would be illegal for RC use. All it's neighboring countries allow it (Netherlands, UK, France and Germany).

I don't know why you make a link to the ACT website since they just announced they would be making a 2.4gHz module too and this is a German company!

I think this petition is not a bad idea, but it is badly executed. You ask all the details from us but give none yourself. Who is behind this petition? Setting up a database of people is also illegal in Belgium without the proper identification and letting people change or delete there details.

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08-12-2007 04:58 PM  10 years agoPost 25
wlouigene

rrApprentice

Coral Springs, FL

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http://www.macgregor.co.uk/radio/2point4ghz.htm
JR Radio are in the process of producing a 2.4 GHz version of the current PCM9XII and the soon to be released PCM 12X. The JR radios will be using the Spektrum technology as currently used in the Spektrum DX6 & 7 etc. We do not know what the new version will be called as yet but Horizon Hobbies are due to receive their version known as the X9303 2.4GHz.

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08-13-2007 06:32 AM  10 years agoPost 26
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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Angelos,
Outdoor usage is only allowed when operating in the 2.4-GHz band. Outdoor wireless links with a range in excess of 300 meters need to be notified at the Belgian Institute of Postal services and Telecommunications (BIPT). Please check http://www.bipt.be/langue.htm for more details.
With 100mW your range will be much larger than 300m, so needing notification at the BIPT I suppose. Could that be the problem?
BTW the link http://www.bipt.be/langue.htm does not work.

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08-13-2007 08:06 AM  10 years agoPost 27
skywalkertje

rrNovice

Belgium

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@Maybe
I see you just edited your post and removed the link to ACT. So my post looks kind of strange now.
...
Same story in GERMANY.

Other European countries will follow soon
...
Where do you get your information that other countries will follow soon?

The only issue in Germany is this:

http://www.dmfv.de/pages/funk/index.htm

"Seit Juli 1997 wurde der Standard EN 300 328 mehrfach überarbeitet. Die letzte Version 1.7.1 datiert vom Oktober 2006. Die Vorgängerversion 1.6.1 kann von Herstellern zurzeit noch parallel zur Version 1.7.1 zur Erklärung der Konformität herangezogen werden. Diese Möglichkeit endet mit dem Außerkrafttreten der Version 1.6.1 im Juli 2008. Ab diesem Zeitpunkt ist ausschließlich die Version 1.7.1 gültig. Nach Auskunft der Bundesnetzagentur ist die Version 1.7.1 dahingehend zu interpretieren, dass keine Fernsteuerungen zur Steuerung von Modellen mehr auf Grundlage des Standards EN 300 328 in Verkehr gebracht werden dürfen. In Betrieb befindliche Geräte genießen Bestandsschutz."

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08-13-2007 08:13 AM  10 years agoPost 28
Angelos

rrKey Veteran

nr Oxford, OX11, UK

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With 100mW your range will be much larger than 300m, so needing notification at the BIPT I suppose. Could that be the problem?
I suspect this is exactly the reason. In any case, irrespective of what the output power is you do need more than 300m for RC. I think the more likely scenario is that misinformed distributors or model shops started selling these 2.4GHz radios unaware that they shouldn’t be doing so. Until BIPT found out and put a stop to it.

-Angelos

Spartan RC R&D

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08-13-2007 09:04 AM  10 years agoPost 29
Climax

rrVeteran

West London, United​Kingdom

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I'm not sure this link gives accurate information,

http://www.macgregor.co.uk/radio/2point4ghz.htm

Can anyone comment? The power levels quoted seem high?

A colleague has compared a US imported DX7 with a UK purchased DX7 on his spectrum analyzer and they appear to have identical outputs (within acceptable limits of tolerance).

Also why would JR/Horizon manufacture units with differing power levels when 100mw is entirely sufficient?

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08-13-2007 09:16 AM  10 years agoPost 30
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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I think the more likely scenario is that misinformed distributors or model shops started selling these 2.4GHz radios unaware that they shouldn’t be doing so.
I'm still not sure. I suppose the BIPT is concerned only about radio pollution, and not about safety issues that could distinguish WLAN from use of 2.4GHz for RC planes.

Then, all 100+mW WLAN packages also have a range of more than 300m. Do WLAN packages come with the explicit note that you have to inform the BIPT? Is the BIPT going to stop all WLAN activity in Belgium as well?

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08-13-2007 12:45 PM  10 years agoPost 31
9387ASH

rrElite Veteran

UK

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The figures quoted on the macgregor website are extracted from the various regulations...

ie..

From FCC 15.246 (b)(3) dated May 4th 2007..

"Section 15.247 Operation within the bands 902 - 928 MHz, 2400 - 2483.5 MHz, and 5725 - 5850 MHz.

(b) The maximum peak conducted output power of the intentional radiator shall not exceed the following:
(3) For systems using digital modulation in the 902-928 MHz, 2400-2483.5 MHz, and
5725-5850 MHz bands: 1 Watt. As an alternative to a peak power measurement, compliance with the one Watt limit can be based on a measurement of the maximum conducted output power. Maximum Conducted Output Power is defined as the total transmit power delivered to all antennas and antenna elements averaged across all symbols in the signaling alphabet when the transmitter is operating at its maximum power control level. Power must be summed across all antennas and antenna elements. The average must not include any time intervals during which the transmitter is off or is transmitting at a reduced power level. If multiple modes of operation are possible (e.g., alternative modulation methods),
the maximum conducted output power is the highest total transmit power occurring in any mode."

From EN 300-328 v1.7.1

"4.3.1 Maximum transmit power

4.3.1.1 Definition
The maximum transmit power is defined as the maximum isotropic radiated power of the equipment.
4.3.1.2 Limit
The equivalent isotropic radiated power (e.i.r.p.) shall be equal to or less than -10 dBW (100 mW). This limit shall apply for any combination of power level and intended antenna assembly.

4.3.2 Maximum e.i.r.p. spectral density
4.3.2.1 Definition
The maximum e.i.r.p. spectral density is defined as the highest e.i.r.p. level in Watts per Hertz generated by the transmitter within the power envelope.
4.3.2.2 Limit
For wide band modulations other then FHSS (e.g. DSSS, OFDM, etc.), the maximum e.i.r.p. spectral density is limited to 10 mW per MHz."

As you can see the references are accurate and valid. The USA is allowed more power output than the Europeans, whether they use it or not is a different matter altogether.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Let us save the 2.4 GHz for the RC ! (EU)
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