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HelicopterMain Discussion › Driver me nuts
08-10-2007 05:07 AM  10 years agoPost 1
alien

rrApprentice

Middletown N.Y.

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Hi Everone I have a real bad glitching problem That just wont go away
I check everthing on the heli from all the bearings includeing the engine bearings. The heli is a Bell47 by century and the engine is a tt50. Gyro is a 401. It seems that right after start up it starts it makes all the sevos go nuts includeing the throttle . after a while it calms down then when I am a idle it is fine nothing as soon as a throttle up just a hair it starts . I have torn this heli apart a bunch a times and nothing. I replace a lot of things still nothing. I did notice that if I touch the head of the engine even without it runing with a metal ratchet or anything metal the servos go nuts . But it dont happen all the time. Then there is time when I touch the head it dont do nothing. Please if there is anyone out there please help me with this GLITCHING . Thank You Ed "allways against the Wind"

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08-10-2007 12:49 PM  10 years agoPost 2
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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Anyway you could fix the title of this post?

IT DRIVES ME NUTS!

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08-10-2007 12:59 PM  10 years agoPost 3
Graeme R H

rrApprentice

Berkshire UK

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Check the RX aerial is not broken internally.

Why fly the rest when you can fly the best. What are the best these days anyway ?

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08-10-2007 01:28 PM  10 years agoPost 4
pgoelz

rrVeteran

Rochester MI

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Do you get a normal range check with the engine off?

If so, it sounds like you have a vibrating metal-to-metal contact somewhere. Bearings, linkages, joints between anodized parts? I'm not familiar with that model but it sounds like there are maybe quite a few metallic joints? Are they all solid and between two clean and un-painted surfaces?

Make sure that all major metallic structures are securely bonded together and not grounded through shafts and/or bearings or moving/sliding parts. For example, if the only thing bonding the tail assembly to the frame or engine is conductivity through the bearings, you could have glitches as the shaft rotates unless the bearings are perfect.

Where is the antenna located?

Do you get glitches with the transmit antenna down if you bang on the heli with a non-conductive object?

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com

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08-10-2007 03:50 PM  10 years agoPost 5
bbeverlie

rrKey Veteran

Hudson,New​Hampshire.USA

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Just from my own experience, I use a Hitec Eclipes 7 QCPM TX with spectra module with my Trex, When I got the heli it had an
Electron 6 RX by Hitec on the surface it seemed ok but I too had glitcing problems! A friend disconnected the motor and let the heli
just sit with the TX on and every now and then the servos would just
start twiching! Not the same every time and not a predictable
time period between this glitching. So I purchased a Hitec QCPM
RX and the problem was gone! No changes were made to the heli
components or placement of them, It all came down to the RX!

AMA#846952

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08-10-2007 05:14 PM  10 years agoPost 6
pgoelz

rrVeteran

Rochester MI

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Be careful. I seriously doubt that your glitching is really gone. The fact that you are now using a PCM receiver just means that the receiver does not move the control surfaces when it experiences a glitch. The glitches are likely still there but instead of being visible, they are momentarily interrupting the data flow. If it is momentary, no big deal. But if it gets worse, the first you know about it may be a lockout or reduction in the data rate significant enough to cause you to crash.

Better to deal with the glitches at the source or possibly move to 2.4GHz. Most glitches and other metal to metal disturbances are much reduced or not even present at that frequency.

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com

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08-10-2007 06:00 PM  10 years agoPost 7
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

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I love this! When someone uses PCM (clearly a more robust transmission type than PPM) folks bash him for masking the problem . . . . but when someone suggests that he use 2.4G, and mask the problem in exactly the same way, then that is a great solution! Talk about inconsistency and hypocritical thinking! The solution is to find the source of the glitch, and FIX IT!

***Grumble***

- Tim

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08-10-2007 06:16 PM  10 years agoPost 8
JeffM1999

rrApprentice

Erie, CO

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Not to fuel your rage tadawson, but if it is a metal vibe emmitting a frequency around 72 MHz, then wouldn't transmitting on 2.4GHz, in fact, make the vibration have no effect on the Radio transmission, thereby solving the problem, right?

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08-10-2007 06:22 PM  10 years agoPost 9
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

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My point is that when PCM accomplishes exactly that, folks bash it, but on 2.4, they claim it's great . . . you can't have it both ways! The source of noise is still there, it's simply a question of how you overcome it . . .

- Tim

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08-10-2007 06:36 PM  10 years agoPost 10
JeffM1999

rrApprentice

Erie, CO

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Ah, it seems we agree then. I must have misinterpretted your original post.

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08-10-2007 06:56 PM  10 years agoPost 11
AnnihilaT

rrKey Veteran

The Netherlands

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Well actually... the only real reason to hunt down the source of interference which isnt causing a mechanical issue other than the RF noise is to get rid of lockouts / glitches. The noise causes issues on 72 or 35mhz but it wont on 2.4ghz - so if you switch to 2.4ghz the issue is gone. Its not "masking" the problem... its switching to a new frequency which is not affected by the RF noise your model is making. Its not the same thing at all. Switching from PPM to PCM is indeed a bad fix because whatever was interfering with your signal to begin with at 35 ot 72 mhz is still going to interfere because you are still on 35 or 72 mhz.





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.

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08-10-2007 07:01 PM  10 years agoPost 12
JeffM1999

rrApprentice

Erie, CO

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I think the point is that you are still on a radio frequency. So it is at least possible to have interference. So neither is a perfect fix. But I am not saying that 2.4G is worse than 72PCM, I think 2.4 is significantly better. I just ordered a X9303 for that reason.

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08-10-2007 08:35 PM  10 years agoPost 13
pgoelz

rrVeteran

Rochester MI

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I think you are confusing PCM (a data protocol) with 2.4GHz, an RF frequency. It so happens that the 2.4GHz RC systems use a form of PCM.

It is my understanding that the broadband noise spectrum from vibrating metal to metal contacts and even from most electrical devices like ESCs and motors is all but gone by the time you get to 2.4GHz. So while the "problem" may still be there, it is far less likely to affect a 2.4GHz RF link regardless of the data format.

To the original poster..... if you remain on 72MHz, you need to find the source of your interference and it does sound like a vibrating metal to metal contact. But if you identify potential interference sources that cannot be easily addressed, switching to a 2.4GHz system would be a lot safer than switching to a PCM system on 72MHz.

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com

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08-10-2007 08:46 PM  10 years agoPost 14
dazzaster

rrKey Veteran

right next door to​hell

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metal to metal noise wont reach the frequency of 2.4 ghz hence why it wont interfear with it , 2.4ghz also swaps channels if there is a problem with interferance to a free channel depending on systems it will do this a few times a second.
pcm will ignore some interferance but to much and it goes into fail safe.
to help with the original poster. check your crystals and receiver ariel. if its been involved in a crash it could very well be the receiver. just try another ppm receiver to rule out its the receiver causing the problem

A.K.A 509

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08-10-2007 09:47 PM  10 years agoPost 15
bigdad390

rrVeteran

East. Liverpool,​Ohio

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Sounds like "metal to metal noise" or perhaps a bad crystal that is causing the problem. To find out if it is the crystal, you could try tapping on the reciever with the engine off to see if the servos glitch.

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08-11-2007 12:43 AM  10 years agoPost 16
alien

rrApprentice

Middletown N.Y.

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Thanks guys I will try everthing you guys said. I think it is eather metal to metal or it is something else I am going to check this weekend . But it even does it if I touch the motor with metal on the head it glitchs and thats without it runing . I have been in R/C a long time but have never had a head scratcher like this . I have own this heli over a yr now and it has only flew once . And it was not crashed . It just develope this glitch. I dont fly much cause I am on Dialysis 3 times a week so I get real tired when I get home. I am waiting for a kidney hopefully soon . Anyway back to the glitch I hope I can find it and fly this Bird soon. If any more idears out there Please let me know Thanks.

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08-11-2007 01:13 AM  10 years agoPost 17
kmbeers

rrNovice

Delaware

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IMO a metal to metal noise MAY mean there is a mechancal problem as many of the other posts here have said. Bad bearing, two metal parts vibrating together, whatever it is you should fnd the root cause and fix it. If it is something like a bearing issue then using 2.4GHz will only mask the problem until something breaks. Considering the heli is a scale Bell47 then it will certianly cost more than a boom and pod and auto like a brick.

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08-11-2007 06:50 PM  10 years agoPost 18
alien

rrApprentice

Middletown N.Y.

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Hi I hear you Kmbeers I am going to check it out today. Its sat and it is realy nice out so it will be off to the yard for testing to find this problem. Also after the testing I am going to pack up the TX and Rx Futaba 9ch . And going to send it back to them to get it all check out. It could be the RX too better being safe. Hopefully wont take long for repair. If I find anything I will let you all know . Thanks again and if anyone make any more commets please charm right in. Again Thanks.

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08-11-2007 08:07 PM  10 years agoPost 19
Hamo

rrVeteran

Ireland

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I had a similar problem, and it turned out to be corrosion in the battery connector, on the black wire. If you are using a NiCd battery check this out.
A battery acts like a huge decoupling capacitor across the plus and minus power rails and is effective in suppressing interference to the radio. A corroded battery lead will have higher resistance thereby reducing the effectiveness of the battery as a suppressor. Hamo

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08-11-2007 08:30 PM  10 years agoPost 20
NitroPolymer

rrVeteran

Southeast Florida

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RF noise is not the only source of energy being emitted by any machine, including aircraft. All aircraft also have vibrations, and these vibrations all occur at specific frequencies. Should the frequencies of the vibration coincide with the harmonic frequency of other components of the aircraft, a feedback loop can exist causing resonance and even flutter and/or structural failure. To alleviate this, engineers of course try to reduce the amplitude of any source of vibration, but they also ensure that the structures of the aircraft resonate outside of the noisy frequency bands. This is is not "masking" the problem, it is an engineering strategy that mitigates the impact of the vibration. To this end, moving our transmitters to a band that is less likely to be be affected by RF noise is not a "crutch," it is a way of dealing with a problem.

Let's not forget that although glitches may sometimes notify us of other problems, they are not a "feature," and eliminating them is a good thing -period. This does not free one from the responsibility to make sure the bird is mechanically sound, but I would sure rather a heli with a good RF link and bad bearings than one with great bearings and a glitching problem.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Driver me nuts
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