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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Installed my OS50 from my Titan in my 600N and it​wont run very well.....
08-09-2007 07:36 AM  10 years agoPost 1
MolokaiBoy

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Lahaina, Maui,Hawaii​USA

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Well heres the story..........

Got tired of waiting for my YS to arrive, and having a newly built 600N Sport staring at me day after day with no engine just looking purdy. I decided to take my OS out of my Titan that just had 3 good flights 2 weeks prior, and put it in my 600.
Got it all installed and set up, left all needle settings the same. set my curves, installed a used TT 50 pipe just for fun, as my MP5 for my YS hasn't come in neither, go figure. Anyways my engine wouldnt start up easily like it normally does. Finally got it started and about a foot up, the engine quit, did a little auto. Seemed my plug was no good, took it out and put directly to my glo driver and it didnt light up. Checked it against a brand new plug and that one lit up. Installed it and it didn't light up my RCATS driver. Re-did my ground on the remote plug then it works. Try again to start my OS and same thing, carb almost half open before it starts. Can't get it to idle like before. Didn't use the stock fuel lines, and noticed the line I used from the muffler was in those 2 grommets that go thru the frames were a bit tight (thought it was causing low pressure to my carb) Checked fuels system and found no leakes.

Im stumped!!

Les
Maui RC Modeler's, Big Island RC Helis, http://www.facebook.com/mauirc

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08-09-2007 03:28 PM  10 years agoPost 2
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Start by running a line direct from your tank outlet to the carb with no filters, t's or anything else in line and see if it runs.

Also make sure your head bolts are tight, your carb is fully seated and your muffler is tight.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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08-10-2007 04:50 AM  10 years agoPost 3
MolokaiBoy

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Lahaina, Maui,Hawaii​USA

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Aloha BarrcudaHockey

I did try the direct line from tank to carb and it didn't seem to make any difference. I also took engine out, checked all head bolts, muffler bolts, and carb to see make sure it was seated correctly. All checked out. I am going to try to change all my fuel lines, and run them as short as possible with nothing but the fuel line.
I added a HT which I even left out of the fuel system and no difference.

Thanks for the help.

Aloha

Les
Maui RC Modeler's, Big Island RC Helis, http://www.facebook.com/mauirc

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08-10-2007 11:27 AM  10 years agoPost 4
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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What did you do different, you changed something go backtrack and do identical set-up. Did you use a different muffler. Did you try a new plug, that is always first you can't tell by looking at them. Look at the rear bearing and see if it has rust.

Chris

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08-10-2007 01:41 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Jim Patterson

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AREA 51 Roswell

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No one mentioned the sealing and tightness on the backplate?? Did you have to pull this to change the fan / clutch??

Highly addicted to carbon fiber.....

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08-10-2007 06:57 PM  10 years agoPost 6
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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It sounds to me like you aren't getting fuel or fuel pressure. With half throttle starts and no idle. Check the nipple on the pipe for crud maybe a piece of rtv or something. The 600N stock clunk line sucks maybe it collapsed, blocked filters, flush out the needles. Maybe binding somewhere in the clutch or drive train? Could it be drag?

What was the temp like when it quit? Where were the needles? Did it lean out? Were you on a gov and couldn't tell?

If you checked all the bolts on the motor, you have a fresh known good plug. You are down to fuel. Swap out the lines. Use direct runs with no filters to test. Flush everything out. Pressure test. Try again. The only differences between your raptor and 600N after a swap are the fuel system and drivetrain assembly. Check them both again.

As a worst case if it still wouldn't run, I'd have it on a test stand in about 10 minutes. Get the heli out of the loop, confirm the motor is still perfect and start from the ground up again.

You got 'spark', and compression, you just need fuel.

Mike

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08-11-2007 06:33 AM  10 years agoPost 7
MolokaiBoy

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Lahaina, Maui,Hawaii​USA

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The 600N stock clunk line sucks maybe it collapsed
No I didn't use the stock align fuel lines. Tried 2 new plugs, OS8 like I've always been using. Also I am using CP20%

Well the only thing I did when I did the swap was change the TT fan to the align fan. Checked all bolts again; head, backplate, carb, muffler everything. Have not checked my bearings yet, I want to go thru the obvious first then go from there.

My temp was slightly warm when i checked it, about 110* or so, I had it running for only about 30 seconds then went into a hover(about 1-1/2 feet) before it quit on me. Needles are set as follows: lo - about a degree lean( at the factory settings it wouldn't even start), hi - 2 clicks lean of 1 1/2 out. No gov installed yet.
Even reinstalled the OS in my Titan, this afternoon, and same thing.
Could it be my starter battery is on the low side and it is not turning my engine over fast enough? I am charging my 12V batt right now and will try again tomorrow.

Thanks for all the tips

Aloha Les

Les
Maui RC Modeler's, Big Island RC Helis, http://www.facebook.com/mauirc

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08-11-2007 07:17 AM  10 years agoPost 8
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Low batt might explain hard to start. It doesn't explain why it quit on ya. That said I've seen these turned over with very slow drills and still start fine. You can even flick start em by hand if you know what you're doing.

I'm just shooting ideas out. So lots of these you've likely tried. Did you seal the muffler with rtv? What did you use? That can take out plugs on you. If you stuck it back in the titan and it still didn't work you pretty much ruled out tank and fuel lines. I knew you didn't use the external align tube but wasn't sure you redid the clunk. Same muffler on both? Did it get removed to do the swap? Did you check the pressure tap? Run a drill bit through it, they can pick up junk easily. Grab some clean fuel tubing and blow through it, is it completely unubstructed?

Pressure test the fuel system at the same time. How much flow can you blow through set at an idle, any? If you close the carb all the way does it block right off? If you pressurize the system and pinch the line does it stay or leak out slowly?

Needles sound great for 20%. Maybe pull the highspeed and see if you can flush it well. You could pull the carb and clean it, double check it is seated and sealed. Maybe hit it with a little compressed air in case something is lodged. Take a look at the needle for burrs or abnormalities, but its hard to imagine how it may have got damaged... maybe you ingested something.

If you plug the muffler while cranking (like you're choking it) does it spew fuel? If you pinch the line while starting to lean it does if fire right away? If you crank the needle way open does it run, is it super wet? The intent is to see if it is fuel starved. If you have a spare tank you could hook it up externally, squeeze it reasonably hard so you know you have great pressure and give it a shot. Does it act normal with lots of fuel pressure? Can you even flood it?

Glow is easy to fix and verify (fresh plug showing amps on a panel). You have to be looking for fuel flow, pressure, airleaks, needle issues. Bearings will sound like a bucket of rocks when they go, it is a pretty unmistakeable noise. It doesn't usually make starting hard, but it can screw with your idle.

Heh, your YS should show up just about the time you have it nailed.

Good luck,

Mike

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08-11-2007 07:26 AM  10 years agoPost 9
MolokaiBoy

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Lahaina, Maui,Hawaii​USA

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Heh, your YS should show up just about the time you have it nailed.
I imagine your right on the money with that one MJWS

I think it quit on me because my plug went dead. I am thinking my engine may have sucked something in as I see a couple of nicks now that I removed the head. And at the backplate where the connecting rod sits looks nicked as well. I did notice however when i started my OS in my 600 (maiden) there was a slight rubbing noise that went away as I spooled up, Checked the fan and fan shroud, and everything seems in tack. May have to bench test it like you said.

Thanks

Les
Maui RC Modeler's, Big Island RC Helis, http://www.facebook.com/mauirc

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