RunRyder RC
 6  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1366 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › OS 50 Hyper quits in flight
08-09-2007 04:12 AM  10 years agoPost 1
c130pilot

rrApprentice

Windsor, CO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This was a drag...

Doing some aerial photo work with "Old Reliable", the Raptor 50 today, and for the first time ever, I had an OS 50 Hyper just quit. I was about 75' up in a dead hover. I was able to get the heli back to a safe landing place in the field we were flying from, but from a still hover at 75' with all that camera gear under it, it was an interesting auto! Long story short it that although it hit with forward motion and rolled over, it looks like all that was damaged was a slight ding in the tail boom, a bent tail brace, a small knick in the blades (look ok, but I'll need to replace them to be safe) and a canopy clip. Camera and all other gear was ok.

My question is this... what happened?

I checked the glo-plug - it's fine. All the fuel lines seem to be ok. The in-line filter was clear. I did remove the needle valve and found a **TINY** peice of something... I suspect this MAY have had something to do with it, but am not sure. We had just flown a full tank flight uneventfully, and were about 3 or 4 minutes into this flight when the motor died.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and have any other ideas on what it may be?

Thanks!
Tim

Help! I'm umop apisdn

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 04:17 AM  10 years agoPost 2
pcmpete

rrApprentice

Phoenix,AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

anytime my Hyper quits is due to the rear bearing going bad. Check that first.

Pete B

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 04:24 AM  10 years agoPost 3
yyyh412

rrNovice

Monterey CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

same thing....

Yeah, the plug LOOKS good. I had fits with my Hyper 50. After looking at the usual suspects (Air leak, bad fuel etc) i looked at the plug. It glowed just fine. BUT, I swapped it out and ALL my issues went away.

Can't speak for your issue. But swap out the plug with a new #8 and see if that makes a diff.

~johnny

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 03:41 PM  10 years agoPost 4
helinutz2

rrApprentice

Medicine Hat, AB​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I agree with pcmpete. Check your rear bearing. I had a similar situation this week with flameouts and found the rear brg was toast, after checking out the usual items (fuel lines, air leak, carb debris, etc)

Good Luck!
Gregg

Rave 90 ENV / Radikal E640 / Rush 750 / Trex 600N
Team No WhinerS, Team Renegade R/C Heliflyers

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:13 PM  10 years agoPost 5
cookie monster

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Also check the fuel tank clunk...the fuel line in the tank fails and will shut down the hyper.

Miniature Aircraft fury extreme 90 710 radix Y.S 91

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 02:34 AM  10 years agoPost 6
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Fuel Tank

I just read a post about left over plastic in the fittings molded into the Raptor fuel tank. I have not seen it myself but it is something to check.

No,No..The other left!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 03:45 AM  10 years agoPost 7
AndrewSi

rrNovice

Redmond, WA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

To be clear, the problem (described in this month's RC Heli mag) is in the TT Header tank, not the main tank. The upper fitting in the header tank that connects to the main tank (not to the engine) is molded solid, then drilled out at the factory. The drilling process appears to leave plastic flashing behind in every single header tank, so the author claims, and I have two header tanks so far that agree with that assessment.

With a very small drill bit or other narrow implement, and a small hobby knife, you can push the flashing down into the tank and then cut it/scrape it out, end of problem - but without taking this action, the leftover plastic can evidently cause random fluctuations in mixture as the flashing moves around and obstructs (or not) the fitting.

______________
Andy

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 06:15 AM  10 years agoPost 8
c130pilot

rrApprentice

Windsor, CO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for all the input, guys. So far I can say it is not the rear bearing. Just got done disassembling the engine and checking the bearings, and they are all ok, which is good! This engine only has about 5 or 6 gallons on it I would say.

The glo plug could be the issue. It tests ok with the glo starter, but it is rather old - about 2 gallons.

Clunk and fuel lines are not the problem.

Still haven't checked for the flashing in the header tank - that will be tomorrow. For now, I'm hoping it was the glo-plug, just so I know the problem's solved! Test flights to follow...

Tim
.

Help! I'm umop apisdn

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 06:23 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Remington870

rrApprentice

Raleigh, NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

wow i have an os 50 hyper and they have never quit on me before. what fuel are u using?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 05:56 PM  10 years agoPost 10
AndrewSi

rrNovice

Redmond, WA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

2 gallons on a glow plug is definitely not "old" unless that two gallons stretched over a reaaaaallly long time- maybe you meant 20?

You should be able to get a whole lot more than 2 gallons out of a single plug! Some people report changing them no more often than after an entire season of flying or even yearly...

______________
Andy

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 10:29 PM  10 years agoPost 11
c130pilot

rrApprentice

Windsor, CO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've gotta find out what plugs you're using! Almost everyone I know and fly with seems to get around 3 gallons per plug.

Tim
.

Help! I'm umop apisdn

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 11:08 PM  10 years agoPost 12
AndrewSi

rrNovice

Redmond, WA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OS #8, works great for me - When your plugs go, how do they fail?

______________
Andy

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-13-2007 04:20 AM  10 years agoPost 13
c130pilot

rrApprentice

Windsor, CO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

An update...

Took the heli out for some flights today. Here's what I checked and did on the re-build:

Disassembled engine and checked rear bearing - Good.
Replaced glo-plug.
Checked All Fuel Tanks (header tank showed no flashing problems) lines and filters - all good.
Removed needle valve and flushed with fuel.

So, now I take the heli out, and the first flight seemed great. After landing and waiting a few minutes, I refueled and attempted to start the engine again. It would start quickly, but each time I got to around 1/4 stick or less, the engine would quit. After 4 or 5 restarts, I finally messed with the low speed needle and richened it up turning it to the right just a small amount. The heli would now run great, but it was spitting fuel/oil out the pipe like crazy. Each time I would try to lean it out, it would quit on spool up.

This is my second Hyper, and I've been very happy with both of them, but I've never had to mess with the mixture once I've gotten the engines broken in just to keep them running. Something's got to be wrong here since the needle valve and low speed idle were never changed.

Disassembly of the engine revealed nothing at all unusual... no scoring or anything. I did not, however, take the carburetor apart at all.

Ideas?

Tim
.

Help! I'm umop apisdn

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-13-2007 05:54 AM  10 years agoPost 14
AndrewSi

rrNovice

Redmond, WA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

One thing not making sense for me:
- You say you turned the idle needle to the RIGHT (clockwise). This is leaning the idle mixture, not richening. Think righty tighty lefty loosy (loose = more fuel going through = rich.)

If you were still spitting massive amounts of oil out of the tailpipe at idle at these settings, then your main needle must be really rich, it affects the overall mixture in all regimes. I have to wonder if you had the idle screw too lean and the main needle way too rich.

You may want to try going the other way - go a tiny little bit rich/left/CCW from center on the idle needle, and experiment with a slightly leaner main needle. How many turns out is the main needle right now?

Also, I know you're wondering why you have to mess with the needles now when your engine was fine before, but given that it's mid-August, the one thing to look at is this: Has the local temp changed much lately? Weather changed the local barometer much? Higher temps = higher density altitude (i.e. makes the engine feel as though it's at a higher altitude) = "richer" mixture at the same needle setting. You need to lean slightly to account for higher temps or low-pressure systems, and go richer in colder weather and/or higher pressure. Small changes in weather probably aren't too noticeable, but you also probably can't expect your winter/spring carb settings to be identical to how they'll be set in summer weather.

While one engine to the next's settings probably aren't transferable, here are mine for comparison's sake: I'm at 75F-85F temps lately, sea level flying, and my .50 Hyper over the last month or so needs to be very slightly lean on the idle needle (clockwise/right of center) and main needle open only about 1.25-1.33 full turns rather than the factory recommended 1.5 starting point to get a nice reliable rich-but-not-too-rich run setting with 15% Cool Power. I expect the main needle will want to open up a bit more as the weather cools down in the fall.

If you're in Windsor,CO as your sig says, then you're at around 4800 feet, and the temps today were in the 90s? Google claims thunderstorms - low pressure? I'd be thinking you'd be running quite a bit leaner than me at that altitude and temperature to get the same sweet spot.

Hope this helps something!

______________
Andy

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-13-2007 03:15 PM  10 years agoPost 15
c130pilot

rrApprentice

Windsor, CO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Andy,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am equally confused about the idle mixture screw. Turning it right, in my mind, should be leaning it - but when I turn it right, the engine runs better and oil starts spitting out the tail pipe like crazy. When I turn it left, it runs worse and stops spitting oil. I was a mechanic for years, so I'm confident I'm not getting me directions backwards... double checked several times.

I understand all you say about higher and hotter temps etc. The thing is that even with significant temp swings it's never caused me to need to do much more than a click or two on the main needle... not all these problems with not running. I am running about 1 click lean of 1.5 turns. Other's I fly with are right in that range of about 1.5 turns. I realize that for higher, hotter etc, that you would think it should be more lean, but beleive me, if you lean it out much more, all the smoke goes away and that sucker gets hot!

Tim
.

Help! I'm umop apisdn

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-13-2007 05:30 PM  10 years agoPost 16
AndrewSi

rrNovice

Redmond, WA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well, you got me stumped, but I'm no expert. One last thought - have you done the pinch test with the engine idling? (Pinch the fuel line shut...)

That's one of the more well documented ways of testing idle mixture.
- If it runs up a little bit for a few seconds and then dies, the idle mixture is good.
- If it runs up several hundred RPM before dying, the idle mixture is probably too rich.
- If there's no noticeable run-up when you pinch the line shut or it does abruptly, it's too lean.

______________
Andy

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-13-2007 09:58 PM  10 years agoPost 17
ringram2077

rrApprentice

Birmingham, AL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have seen (personal experience) where using to much red RTV on the muffler flange would cause some RTV to end up in the glow plug element. This will cause a flameout.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-14-2007 12:40 AM  10 years agoPost 18
rgl726

rrApprentice

cebu city,​philippines

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

what fuel you are using? do you have a head shim?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1366 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › OS 50 Hyper quits in flight
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 6  Topic Subscribe

Friday, November 24 - 5:35 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online